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Houston and CC FAns Do Not Deserve James Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by glynch, Dec 16, 2020.

  1. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Houston Knicks fan
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  2. rockets13champs

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    Well we ain’t in Atlanta
     
  3. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    There is almost zero loyalty to the NBA fans that superstars have in the modern NBA so I think expectations for fans should be tempered.

    That being said, yes Harden has been great for the Rockets and Houston over the past 8 years, and we've had some deep playoff runs. One of which almost brought down one of the most dominant teams in NBA history, and probably would have if their 2nd best player didn't pull a Hammy.

    So what does loyalty mean then?

    To me, that loyalty means that when it's time to depart, there are no hard feelings which that's how I feel about Harden RIGHT NOW. Now that could change if Harden pulls more BS to get out of town faster than is required, or if he disses the city & fans on his way out. That's really the line in the sand for me. But I have no beef with Harden requesting a trade since he's right... if his goal is to win a championship, the Rockets just aren't his best place to do that moving forward. Part of that is his fault for forcing the Westbrook trade, but you can't undue that now so here we are, and yes it's time to part ways, and do so in a way that doesn't tarnish the last 8 years.

    What Loyalty is NOT is holding him hostage, and just keeping him here to have a team that might or not be the 6th or 7th best team in the West. It also doesn't mean holding him hostage if he doesn't believe that himself. You can't win with a star player that doesn't believe in his team. If truly feels that way, you gotta let him go, and Hardens obligation is to help the Rockets get him where he wants to go by showing up on time (strike), being in shape (strike), saying the right things to the media (meh...check for now) and playing to help your team win while you are waiting (wait and see....).
     
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  4. RocketsFido

    RocketsFido Member

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    I thought this was troll post but you're actually being serious.

    Well then I guess no fanbase deserves any superstar that leaves because I have yet seen a fanbase that doesn't criticize their own star player.
     
  5. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    There's 0 feelings in my post. Here's what you wrote:
    Sounds like you're clearly dissatisfied with Harden. That's just the objective analysis of what you wrote.

    When you write about rationality, you should leave your position transparently, instead of leaving only clues like "he makes a lot of money, he has responsibilities."

    If you don't want him to leave, I don't know how you can be frustrated about his salary.
     
  6. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    I don't mind honest criticism. But it shouldn't be shallow. The guy is an MVP, playing in the era of superteams. You can't just characterize him in the simplest of terms without taking into account the direction the franchise chose to go as well.

    This is also beyond just criticism, people hate Harden. There's a lot of truth in saying not many people give Harden props for what he has done. If you talk about Steph Curry, I almost never hear any criticism of his game other than just defense.
     
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  7. hajkov

    hajkov Consummate Member

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    Cut the crap
     
  8. homewight

    homewight Contributing Member

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    You definition of loyalty is pretty ****ed. Harden doesn't deserve to win ****. He hasn't worked hard at all. Always taking extra days off, doing what he wants, not what the team needs. He's driven off all-stars the org has mortgaged the future for. I guess when your girlfriend cheats on you, you just say, "she's been with me for a while and she deserves to have someone last more than 2 minutes. Good for her."
     
  9. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    Are you talking about the media or are you talking about CF posters? What do CF fans criticize about Harden's game? As far as I can think, these are the most frequent criticisms about Harden's game:

    1. Defense. This has been changed and most serious fans now do not think defense is Harden's problem anymore.

    2. Too ISO heavy (not moving off ball). This is true. I don't know how you can deny that. Whether ISO heavy is good or bad for the team, and whether it is Harden's preference or the coach's direction are debatable. But this is not hatred. It's a valid point of contention.

    3. Playoffs problem. This is partially true. Harden did check out in some games, and unfortunately for us, a few of those games were important playoffs games. Again, this is a valid point of contention, not just hatred.

    Harden apologists typically dismiss these criticism, either (1) by giving tons of excuses, or (2) by simply deflecting the criticisms saying things like "he's MVP" or "the Rockets are nothing without him" etc. which do not really address the criticisms. Oh, and yes, play the "hate" card as if putting the "hate" label on the critic would make the criticisms invalid.
     
  10. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member
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    I want him to stay with the Rockets and honor his contract in good faith. Clear enough?
     
  11. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    ISO is a strategy that the organization employed. I said it before your reply... It's a simplistic criticism of Harden that fails to point out how the front office decidedly went with an ISO-heavy offense.

    I'm fine with this. 2 WCF appearances is pretty damn good, there's already a limit on how many teams can get to this level. Majority of the teams do not reach this level.

    It's not an excuse. Everything is a decision. If Harden sits idly by on a half-court setting, that's also a decision made by a system and a hierarchy of people who get paid a ton of money for those decisions.

    I like how you dismissed the MVP thing by the way. Is it a big deal or not? How many players have won them?
     
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  12. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    That's what he's doing, he's been doing it for 8 years.

    I'm nothing like Harden, the longest I've worked for a company is 6 years. I've left a company as early as 3.

    For a Software Developer, an average turnover rate is 1.7 years.

    Nobody works like you expect Harden to.
     
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  13. sirbaihu

    sirbaihu Member
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    He has two years left on his contract. He should honor it and play for two more years at 100%. You disagree?
     
  14. oelman44

    oelman44 Member

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    Agree with this. I think some posters in this thread are missing the point of people's frustration - the fact that Harden is such a beloved player by Houston fans is precisely why people are upset and feeling somewhat betrayed. It's absolutely natural. Rockets fans have spent the last 8 years constantly going to bat for Harden, leading a crusade against the media for the unfair way they treat him, and arguing how he is the deserving MVP year after year until their faces turn blue. From knowing fans of other NBA teams, this is literally what our fanbase is known for. I think one of the things we liked the most about him is his consistent loyalty to a city he had no personal ties to in the era of superteams and taking the easy way out - so yeah, of course people are going to be a little bit disappointed when suddenly he wants out.

    I also hate this self-hating 'I hope Harden leaves our miserable franchise to win a ring' mindset. People on this website really still have an obsession with making fun of Lin-only-fans six years after he leaves the franchise, but think we should be rooting for an NBA superstar's (who is worth hundreds of millions) personal interests over our own team? Come on now.
     
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  15. Easy

    Easy Very Calm
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    Right. Just as I said. It's debatable. It's not just hatred. And saying that it's decided by people who get paid a ton of money does not really address the criticism. I don't have to know how to fix a pipe in order to criticize a professional plumber who is not doing a good job.

    What you say here is exactly my point. Irrelevant deflection. 2 WCF appearances and MVP awards do nothing to address the criticisms against Harden. Are you saying that an MVP can do no wrong, and whoever criticizes any part of his game is a hater? It's the same logical fallacy on the other side: Since Harden has never gone to the finals, he must be a loser and won't ever lead us to a championship.
     
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  16. John Harvey

    John Harvey Member

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    remember when our big target was Gortat? Lmao
     
  17. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    Not true. You said it's a fair criticism of Harden. If it's debatable that the front office has something to do with it (.... should be obvious that they decide what system to put out on the court), then ... how are you being fair to Harden in the criticism of an ISO-heavy offense?

    Objectively speaking, organization could've said we're not doing that type of offense, we're not signing MDA. Those days are behind us, and we know what decisions they took. Could've traded Harden, and we also know that's not what they did.

    On this topic specifically, I originally posted this:
    It's shallow to be "Oh that's all on Harden". If we agree on that, I don't know what we're talking about.

    When you yourself admit it's debatable who to blame, then *shrug*.

    I like how you just completely ignored my first sentence directly talking about the "Excuses". I addressed you fully on every thing. For you to think I missed something? That's insulting:

    Harden has been to the Finals, just not as a Rocket. Give him enough help, I'm quite sure the Rockets could've gone to the Finals.
     
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  18. s3ts

    s3ts Member

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    I just told you he's been doing it. And whether he gets traded or not, he's going to be doing it.

    Please don't even reply if you're not going to make a point. I hate typing words, and coming to your 15 word reply talking about literally nothing.
     
  19. Believe It!

    Believe It! New Member

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    I've been a Rox fan for nearly 40 yrs. I saw all the glory and the not so much. Have been on clutchfans.net since before it was clutchfans.net and I haven't posted anything in yrs. Just read. After reading ALL of that I couldn't help myself. Or should I say can't help myself.

    There's way too many points of ignorance and bias to touch on in this declaration of pretty much ish. The facts speak for themselves. In fact, you brought a lot of them up. Except only to disregard and call out those that have witnessed those FACTS.

    The two points I want to toss out that mean the most in my own personal opinion are that...

    1. Quote "F'D up boss" is ridiculous. Hold a candle do you? He offered JH 50 MIL A YEAR. 50. And it was not his fault for any losses. Nor his fault that apparently players do not like playing with JH.

    2. Unfortunately JH no matter how good he is offensively which is definitely top 10 all time and maybe top 5 has his priorities in strings that begin with G. I was a huge fan, but watching him sit on the bench obviously drained from what came out later being at a club and was witnessed and reported taking multiple females into his house after 2 AM on the day of a deciding playoff killed it.

    Tell us.... how many pts did he score that night?

    For someone who has been nothing but coddled and offered 50 million a year to demand a trade is as ridiculous as your post Glitch.
     
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  20. Mr Chuck Norris

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    Nah he’s right
     
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