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Horizon Deepwater

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by DonnyMost, Apr 29, 2010.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The Admin is getting a lot of criticism for the failure to marshal every resource possible early on. What I can't help but wonder though is that if the early efforts of BP had worked, the collection dome or Top Kill, that if the Obama Admin. had marshalled every resource that others would've accused them of being alarmist and beating up on the oil industry needlessly.
     
  2. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    That's a problem I'd love for us to have.
     
  3. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I'm more receptive to the charge that more could have been done to protect the shores.....especially since oil is hitting the shores over two months after the accident...then I am comforted by reports by the people in charge about how much they've done.

    "we thought the other stuff would work" seems as hollow to me as BP's assertion that the accident would never happen. As does the "golly...we done did everything we could." So...yes...given the oil IS hitting the shores, I'm pissed. Partisan snipes aside...I can't just dismiss this mess because I like the current admin more then the previous one.

    Somebody dropped the ball here. I would have had no objection to spending more of BP's money (and government money) early on to provide a safeguard in case the plugging and containment strategies did not work.
     
  4. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I think this was a damned if you damned if you don't situation. As I've said before I agree there was more that could've and should've been done but at the same time I can understand why things weren't necessarily done so from the beginning.

    In the same vein though this is an article pointing out how red tape has been slowing the recovery down.

    http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/01/the-mire-next-time.html
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I was angry at BP from the beginning. I have relatives who did contract construction jobs for BP while working for a gigantic construction company that no longer exists, thanks to the South Texas Nuclear Project (you might be able to guess which former company that was), and they told me that of all the oil companies they worked for under contract, and they worked for all of them, BP was easily the most dangerous and the least careful of the safety of those working for them, directly and indirectly. In fact, one relative, a construction supervisor (a "gold hard hat") finally started passing up jobs that involved BP, which didn't make his bosses very happy.

    So anger at BP existed for me from the get-go, but I expected their incompetence, having heard these stories. However, I expected more from the Federal level, including the President. I realize there are limits to what he can do, in many ways being a prisoner of the glacial movements of the bureaucracy himself, but I expected more forceful action from the President from the beginning. He's coming around and learning as he goes, but as I said earlier, it is my Gulf and it is the Gulf of the rest of us who grew up fishing, swimming, boating, sailing, and working in and on its waters. There should have been stronger action earlier and that there wasn't has me quite pissed off. I don't want to listen to excuses. I want to get this fixed and cleaned up, but I also want to find out exactly who knew what and when they knew it. What could have been done and wasn't. I want heads to roll and if they eventually don't, I'll continue to be one very angry Democrat.
     
  6. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    How do you protect thousands of miles of coastline? You really can't, the amount you spend on doing that might be better served elsewhere - in clean-up and restoration. Or maybe in fighting global warming which is a bigger long term threat to Louisiana's marshes then this oil spill.
     
  7. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    You are looking at this in an esoteric way. Those of us who grew up along the Gulf look at it a bit differently.
     
  8. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I find my anger at BP extends to all the companies drilling at that depth. Afterall...none of them stepped up with a ready to go plan to stop the leak - which indicates they were no better prepared for this type of disaster (though possibly less vulnerable to one due to better safety standards -- we don't know).

    I'm also not necessarily as upset at the federal response to capping and/or offshore cleanup given the expertise required --except, of course, that it hasn't worked and wasn't ready to go before the disaster.

    But....from the beginning...I would have expected a plan that said: a)cap the leak; b)clean up offshore; and c) protect the shores at all costs assuming a and b don't work. I fear they bought in too quickly that the leak would be capped, and that the shore cleanup would be OK -- and did not pay enough attention to the ecological damage that the shore contamination is likely to cause -- concentrating instead on the financial cost of clean up rather then the environmental cost. This is where my frustration lies. And I'm exceeding disappointed by the silence from the environmental groups who it seems are either fearful of being aligned with the partisan hacks spouting political drivel, or have been negligently complacent due to preferring the current admin to the loons that preceded it.

    And Lou -- you simply do more. You get the bloody job done. It's been two months and the shores are still vulnerable. You don't rationalize the financial costs on this type of disaster when it needs an immediate response. (allocate the funds to global warming? really? the patient is hemoraging critically, but instead of bandages, lets change his diet). You protect the freaking shores from this crap that's been floating around for more then two months. Sure it's a big job. And complex as hell. And pricey. And if costs BP $15b instead of $10b so be it. It seems they haven't taken advantage of all the resources that have been offered - and that's wrong.

    Sometimes even the good guys could do better. And I thinks thats the case here.

    Deck -- I'd rep you a thousand times for your posts on this. But, like some of the response to the spill -- it seems I must wait out the process before acting.
     
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  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Maybe he's looking at it in a realistic way.
     
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    This is my biggest criticism about the whole situation, that there was almost no contingency plan developed for this type of disaster and that it was almost beyond consideration by BP and the other oil companies even though this type of disaster had happened in 1979.
     
  11. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    Too much money and influence... who was going to make them take it seriously? Face it folks, we're in a second Gilded Age and Teddy Roosevelt's not coming back anytime soon. Labor's at it's nadir and there is no way enough non-corporate politicians could currently be elected to counter the the extraordinary corporate influence. With Republicans set to gain some governorships this year, that means gerrymandering with 2010 Census numbers will push any opportunity back at least another 10 years. Not that it would make any difference because we as a people are content to watch movies and sports while occasionally venting on message boards and letting someone else (usually a person with "extreme" views) try to handle the burden by themselves. When they fail, we can assure ourselves that it is because they had "extreme" views and ignore the fact that the vast majority of Americans don't really care, including us.

    With what's going on in this country over the last 12 years, there should be marches on Washington every week. There should be constant protest and picket lines at a number of major corporations. The Big Swinging Dicks on Wall Street should have been castrated and hung by now (at least figuratively)... why is nobody in Houston shutting down BP facilities? Huge numbers of people should be organizing and voting. The government (at all levels) should be afraid of the people, not the other way around. Corporations should absolutely tremble, but they are sitting back laughing at us while they count their money and retreat to the Hamptons until we forget again.

    I would like to say more, but I have to go watch Sportscenter to see where LeBron's ending up... biggest story of the year baby! Maybe I'll have some bacon while I watch. Mmmm, Hormel bacon. Then I can lock myself in the office and watch some p*rn... that will keep me relaxed for the rest of the day so I can work towards my goal of scrimping enough money together to drive to Disneyland or Vegas. I need to spend money on trips and stuff to escape the dreary existence of the work I have to do to pay for the trips and crap I need to buy to escape my dreary existence... plus, I need to stick with my job because I enjoy the privilege of paying them exorbitant amounts of money for crappy medical coverage.

    America: No change needed and if there is, it's up to the other guy... I'm not getting involved.
     
  12. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

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  13. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Its not just that people don't care but that BP and big oil is essentially too big to fail. Consider how many complaints there are regarding only a six month moratorium on deep water drilling. Now imagine if deep water drilling was stopped altogether and if BP's Houston operations were shut down. There would be people going apoplectic about the hit to Houston's economy over that.

    Unfortunately this is just another aspect of our addiction to fossil fuels. We can't implement radical change due to how much our overall economy is dependent on it.
     
  14. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    There's also the teabag mentality that blames the government, not the Bush admin, for its incompetence and failures.

    Git the Fed out so the MAN can step in!
     
  15. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    More consequences...

     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Just heard on the radio that for the first time since the explosion oil isn't leaking anymore from the Deepwater Horizon site.

    No word though on how long this might be the case as they test the new cap.
     
  17. Coach AI

    Coach AI Member

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    Please hold, cap. Fingers crossed.
     
  18. TECH

    TECH Member

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  19. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    Deck - I grew up in New Orleans and Houston.
     
  20. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    Heard (12 hours ago) that there isnt leaking into the Gulf out of the TOP. (Using regular person terms_ it doesnt necessarily mean oil isnt oozing out of places underneath. If the pressure at the cap is too low, it might indicate oil coming out of unseen places. Again thats according to a radio guy. But at least the visual of actual progress is a little settling
     

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