Amazing. Line by line, lead us through a comparison of federal response to natural phenomenon Katrina and federal response to this corporate oil spill. Please lead us through the term "clueless" for Obama in this case. TIA. As I see it. HURRICANE: * have warning * disaster strikes * have tangible data with people in need * incredibly delayed response due to poor preparation and poor organization * attributed (stupidly) to Bush. more appropriate to criticize his unqualified appointee. * Bush's appointment was poor. His *initial* response showed a lack of empathy for what people were going through (to say nothing of those who died.) * Stupid way to evaluate an administration, but it underlined a lack of competence for most people. GULF OIL SPILL * no warning * disaster strikes * data must initially come from private firm * private firm owns site and commodity pollutant * private firm knows everything about site and ways to seal it off * federal government is way out ahead of the oil deploying people and booms to potentially impacted areas * federal government suspends new deep water exploration for six months to evaluate standards and techniques. * Obama (strangely, if you ask me) says "he is responsible" for response. That's political, I guess. * Coast guard doing everything imaginable they can do. IN SUM In one case, it was clear what needed to be done. Get food, water, transportation and shelter to people ASAP. In the other case, it is not clear to most people what needs to be done to plug the leak, give or take using the collected works of Ayn Rand. Am I missing something? Both situations are absolutely stupid ways to evaluate a president. In one case, an appointee was clearly incompetent and half-hearted in his efforts. How you get that Obama is even worse than Bush here is just a baseless statement of political preference, to the point of being bizarre.
Bob: I disagree with Thumbs editorial comment...but if the oil hits the shore in any significant quantity two months after the blow-out, I'll question the government response in protecting the affected communities.
In other news, the cap is only kind of working. Reason for limited flow is that hydrates form in the cap if they try to pull too much, blocking the pipe a la the previous attempt at a containment dome. They can't block the pipe because the pressure will cause the cap to blow off.
It's a big freeking shore and the dispersents utilized have kept a majority of the oil under the surface. How do you control this?
I don't blame either president for what happened. Obama did fine until he tried make political capital out of it. Hind sight is 20-20. Its always easier to say what we should have done instead of owning up to the issue at hand, whether is responding faster to a cleanup or responding more efficiently to Katrina. I don't expect Obama to fix this. He was just a fool to do what he does best, political grandstanding. What I do recognize is that this was an accident that nobody wanted. Was BP and everyone else in this drilling process at fault? Sure. We certainly need to learn from this experience to reduce the risk of this happening again. But to act like this is the only injustice in the world is pure silly. If you were worried about the wetlands, where is the anger from the government allowing oil companies to destroy the wetlands years ago for oil? If you're angry at BP, then you're just as complicit for each and everytime you use any product that comes from oil. All these oil companies make bad judgment calls, it was BP who got caught with their pants down. You might be worried about wild life be caught in the cross fire. Im worried about the 11 lives lost and those who will get sick and/or have long time complications from them helping with the cleanup.
Rhad: It's been almost two months. That's a long lead time. *IF* it hits the shore in significant quantities, I'll be pissed. I don't know how you control it any more then I know how you stop the leak 1 mile underwater...but...going back to Rimrocker's excellent posts on disaster preparedness, I'd expect people with more expertise then I have would have planned and addressed ways to protect the shores in the event the sealing and offshore clean up did not work as well as hoped. I'm not blaming Obama. Just looking at results (or, more accurately, speculating on what my thoughts will be if results prove disastrous). I'm still hopeful it doesn't come to that.
No one deserves blame here except BP. I'm not confident that any amount of perperation/effort can preclude 45 million gallons of oil floating around in the gulf from causing widespread ecological havoc.
I don't blame either President for the events themselves. Bush didn't plan Katrina and Obama/BP didn't want a fatal explosion. However, my concern is how Bush and Obama reacted to and managed their respective disasters. By Congressional / Presidential fiat, we have prevented drilling in land and shallow sea oil beds, forcing riskier deep water drilling. Despite that, there have been very, very few leaks from oil exploration sites. Obviously, there were some corners cut in this well (probably the blowout preventer), and that lays the onus of culpability on BP. Yes, I should have acknowledged the rig workers who were killed because they too, like the wildlife, are a shameful loss. While I am not a tree hugger, I am very concerned about protection of our natural resources. I remember how environmentalists, in protecting Anwar, showed pristine mountains and forests when the area in question was barren flatleds where antelope and musk ox don't even roam. That was wrong because, again, it channeled us into bad decisions like drilling in dangerous waters (my opinion, Major et al, not documented).
I'm sorry this post has been ignored. It's the kind that should lead to fruitful dialogue. I'm also sorry I can't rep again for it.
I don't rep people enough for posts like this. i hate to go back in time, but katrina defined bush's presidency in the sense of the having an unqulified person leading fema who's previous job was over a horse breeding association. a purely political appointee, from the MBA presidency. I was thinking yesterday its my fault bush was ever president. I was remembering being back at UT in 94 when he became governor. I was complaining about him winning in the caferteria and this girl asked me did I vote. I hadn't, I was too lazy to drive home and do so. Well the rest is history
The reason for this disaster is the umitigated greed of BP and a government that has been far too corporation-friendly for far too long.
Ignored I even addressed my comment to Bob. And Rhad and I had a relatively fruitful dialogue -- or so I thought. I did try to ignore the Obama/Bush baiting -- but I figured that was a good thing?
I meant specifically by thumbs. Sorry I wasn't more clear. He brought something up, it was addressed, and he responded again without addressing the point by point analysis presented as a result of his post. You and rhad did have the kind of discussion I wish we could see more of on the board. I'm sorry for not being more clear.
no worries Blade I tend to fly under the radar. (and I generally scroll by quickly when someone attempts to defend some asinine comment...so wasn't particularly bothered that thumbs didn't respond to the debunkment of the Obama/Bush comparison). Have a good weekend...all. I'm OFF!
This is, uh, dramatic... <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/pE-1G_476nA&border=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/pE-1G_476nA&border=1&color1=0x2b405b&color2=0x6b8ab6&hl=en_US&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Actually, somewhere in this thread I did address the point. Bush had "warning" but did not really know where Katrina would come ashore until the last hours. Once the storm was done, his actions in managing the crisis were pitifully lacking as were those of Nagin and Blanco. Secondly, I gave a pass to Obama for the first several days while the situation was being evaluated. When the facts were finally assembled, he still did nothing except "study the situation." It was clear to all the media that BP was underestimating the flow, but Obama kept his head in the sand. Now, he is on the political stump castigating BP thereby driving down the BP stock level to a point where they cannot pay for the damage they've done. That's really, really smart.
