Holy Sh*t - Someone might be interested in trading for John Wall

Well apparently you don't know Wall's history?

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/2/6/16982932/john-wall-washington-wizards-marcin-gortat

So yeah, Jesus Christ?

EDIT: Also kind of funny how Rocket's players when frustrated (Wood a few times, Silas too) go on and on about how the ball needs to move...anyone watching the games know lol...but those old Wizard stories sound very familiar to me...

 

I get that, but once again its fine to do. it doesn't need to have a precedent. go look at the list of people in the nba making 40 plus million, only john wall is a non contributor. Go look at the top 20, its only John WAll and Kevin love. Both of them are fine to send em home, they make big bank and everyone knows they aren't going to produce at that level and at that point its a business situation.

I'm arguing the worst case scenerio absolute worse case is that we sit him for the year. More than likley he agrees to be a pro unless he wants to be out of the league, bc the side you are not looking at is John wall is not a hot commodity. No one wants him. Now if he was a free agent he still won't get over 10 million liklely now say he gets a rep of someone who is unwilling to be a 'vet' and add to locker room culture and just play his minutes and be a good example, then his value goes down. Rich is smart enough to get that for john wall's sake and future, hes gotta handle it right, he doesnt have the clout of harden or these guys.

We're not trying to teach em a lesson. We have a team direction ,we're rebuilding and working on our young guys. Thats simple as that, john wall is not fitting that time line so he can a) be a good vet, work on his game, contribute the minutes off the bench or low level starter minutes and help the team where he can and get his check until we trade or buyout or he can b) demand more and want the ball and not want to be a vet, then we have the right to sit him, not teach him a lesson. eVery year each player is asked to play a certain role, John wall should be excited that he is asked to play a smaller role and still get the big bucks

A first rounder does not hold value? Lets see the picks you cited, the 22 Bucks, 22 Nets? Late first rounders. 24/26 nets are more in the air, plus 21/23 swaps...late first rounders. 25/27 up in the air. So we basically traded harden for guaranteed 4 late first rounders and the hope that we can swap(we have no guarantee we'll be better than them) 24/26 somehow come through.26 is probably the most hopeful.

How did we get harden, 2 first roudners(one turned to steven adams, mitch mcgary) and some role players

How did we get chris paul? a first roudner(30th pick, omari spellman) with role players.

So yea, first rounders matter.

Brooklyn could've kept jarret allen if they didn't spend a first rounder on landry shamet, they scrambled to get milwaulkees for this trade.

HAving assets matters, plain and simple

And how does that help cade?

Well, like the above you never know the opportunity comes and we can get him better talent with that first rounder. You never know when a capela or role player that we got like this year tate KMJ are around, that helps cade.

Basically we can do exactly what you're saying, prioritizing Cade...without losing assets while we're in asset building mode.

 

None of those guys are fine to send home though. Wall's output on the court is irrelevant to whether his agent will protect him...and his agent will protect him. That shouldn't be a debate, it's his job to do just that. Love doesn't even want to play in Cleveland, he's made that pretty clear. Worst case scenario will never happen. I'm confident in saying that. We're not sending a player home for the entire year unless he's hurt or unless he asks to be sent home. If Wall wants to play the Rockets will do something about it. If that's trade him, cut him, buy him out, whatever the case he's not going to just accept wasting a year of his career. I know we're arguing worst case scenario too.

As for the value of first rounders, the Harden trade for OKC is known as one of the most lopsided trades in the history of any sport. OKC at the time really thought Kevin Martin could fill in and do what Harden did for their bench and also that was a lottery pick, a HUGE difference there... and the Harden trade well...we have plenty of people here that think we traded Harden for 'nothing' at all. That value only becomes evident after you draft the impact player, which may or may never happen. First rounders in this sense when they are late first rounders are usually just throw ins, sweetner, to a deal., they are trade assets really. That's all they are and you reevaluate their value from year to year.

If Harden/Kyrie/Durant were to all leave Brooklyn after next season (for whatever reason, just a hypothetical here...) and then BKN sucks, those pick values go waaay up, but if BKN wins two rings, and then just recycles their superstars from year to year? Those picks become very blah picks that many won't be that excited for. I never said they had no value, but I'm saying late first round picks do not have tremendous value. I think that's true. A 26th pick in the draft is not much different than a 34 pick in the draft which is a second round pick.

 

Its not a debat,e his agent will try to take care of him, that is his one job. I'm not disagreeing, I'm saying he doesn't have the leverage or the righteousness in this particular situation with everythign considered adn thats where I'm hanging my hat on. Exactly Love doesn't want to play, but he just hangs in there gets his check sometimes sits on the bench so on and like Wall, he doesn't have the clout to go demand minutes or hurt development, neither does wall and tahs what i mean by we can laeve him be. And as you said, if wall doesnt...trade hi, buy him out whatever...and tahts what it will come to and in the eyes of the public, no one is feeling sorry for 40 million dollar man who doesnt contribute having to do that.

I get its loopsided trade, what I'm saying is you never know, especially with rockets history that when availability happens ,every pick is an incredible asset. Heck it got brooklyn Harden...and half the picks were late first rounders...so you keep the assets, and you use em or you can package em, you definitely don't throw away something that valuable in a trade just to get rid of something as non important as wall when you have other options.
But those trades may not have happen without what you call "not worth that much" picks...so that in itself, they are worth a considerable amount.

Exactly, the brooklyn picks we were sold hope...thats what picks do, they sell hope. EVen top 12 picks there are bust EVERY year, drafting is not an exact science there are also sleepers and guys who fall through the cracks every year...whose to say we don't take this late first rounder of brookly with another and jump to 13/14th? Basically with it, we have a lot of options flexiblity to move and trade that away when we're not in the tax, when we're rebuilding and this year won't matter as much, nah I can't do it. Brooklyn could also possibly rebuild better then us, their stars can leave and just like the first time they can draw in more stars. They have new facilities, great market, and an owner who says heres a blank check theres a reason everyone wants to go there all of a sudden.

 

John walls knees are not built for the grind that is Thibo and his coaching style.

 

I really think you are overplaying this angle ....

Wall may want out but he also knows his contract is a very difficult , if not impossible one to move at the moment.

If he wanted out bad enough , he'd be making concessions on that $91.6M he's owed .... and really , when it comes to a buyout , the cap hit is more an issue than the actual dollars.

This is a situation where common sense has to be applied .... IF Wall wants out , The Rockets will move or buy out Wall when it's not prohibitive to do so and he's simply got to accept that. It's just too much money and too much cap space.
Now if the Knicks or some other team take him off your hands without leaving you with poor contracts that outlive the current contract .... Wonderful.

 

People are arguing about John Wall ... it would be funny if it weren’t so god damn sad

 

Let’s argue about Mobley! No way he is a #2!

 

I would imagine if Wall were too go to another playoff team, he’d be most likely waiving his player option to sign an extension.

 

Damning and disheartening evidence of Wall's character. Not good and must be omitted prior to any trade possible.

 

I remember when he first came here I thought he was this selfless assist first PG and the more I read and learned about him the more I realized my perception of him was wrong. The more he played the more I realized oh...this dude is a very selfish player.

One of those articles, in the article I linked, talked about Harden. How he wanted 'Harden' money and how funny that must be...and how he publically called Beal his sidekick. This is why again I'm not expecting him and Cade (should we be lucky to get him) to have a good relationship. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe he's humbled thyself...but I wouldn't bet on it. My guess is he's going to be jealous of him and the organization being built around him and he's not going to like it.

 

I agree with all of this though. I think Wall wants out, he liked some post on instagram or twitter about how the Rockets should trade him. I think he wants out. Rightfully so, he's 30+ he doesn't want to spend time on some rebuilding team when he can be on the Knicks or something.

I think everyone here agrees that we want to get rid of Wall as efficiently as possible though. I'm just more desperate to get rid of him than others. I want him gone before game 1.

 

Yeah, but it's not about feeling sorry for him. It's just not something that is done. Players are not going to be cool about it because they see themselves in that situation. That an organization would be cool with wasting a guy's career away isn't something they take lightly. Wall has a lot more clout than you think man, just because he's not some MVP talent doesn't mean he has no weight in the NBA. Clout in the NBA isn't about how 'good' or bad you are as a player. Sitting out players for an entire year that want to play simply doesn't happen. Hell man, it doesn't even happen to scrubs. If those players want to get released they get released or the team will say we'll just send you to the G league. It simply isn't something that happens. It's a common courtesy organization pays to teams that they will let them pursue opportunities elsewhere, that's all it is.

Well, it got Brooklyn Harden because Stone thinks the team will implode. If he knew for certain that he'd be getting late round firsts my guess is he wouldn't do that trade. they plainly said that they looked at the Celtics deal, where the Nets imploded and the Celtics got lottery picks from it. That's what they are hoping and expecting for, not late round firsts. Late round first do not have this great value, they are complete crapshoots. A few times teams outright just sold late first rounders, in fact, KPJ was a a FRP sold to the Cavs, so yeah...I don't think they have this value to where you hold on to them at all costs. Lottery picks, sure, another story...but we're talking late round firsts here.

 

I tend to agree with the guy who made the who should we draft thread, should we really be considering a big if our goal is draft a franchise guy in today’s league?

Mobley has to be a KG/Duncan/Dirk level player to give us a chance for a championship with him as THE man. He doesn’t look anywhere near that level of offense for any of those guys

Feel like Mobley goes 4th, Suggs 3rd, and 1&2 is a surprise tossup between Green and Cade

 

The only hope is that Fertitta decides to sell to an owner rich enough to buy Wall out. There's no other option at this point.

 

We should be focusing on getting rid of House’s contract….not Wall’s. We can certainly win games with a healthy Wall and that’s all I care about. The Rockets are loaded with money due to trading away Harden’s, Oladipo’s and Westbrook’s salaries, so we need to focus on what’s best for winning.

 

He never fooled me.

 

Are you being sarcastic? Loaded with money, ha.

 

I'm not at all desperate to dump Wall as I really don't see him as getting in the way of anything.


He's not going to play much over 30 minutes a game , you can stagger him with your draft pick if that's the concern , you can even let him start ... and then there's the fact that he hasn't played more than 41 games since the 2016/17 season.

So he plays some early , maybe well enough to get traded , if not its highly likely he's sitting out more games than not in the second half of the season and your prize rookie is getting his run ..... after getting his feet wet.

Getting to the end of this coming season with Wall on the roster is not such a terrible option as the following year is his option year which he's most certainly going to opt into at $47m+.
Him being such a large expiring contract gives you a whole lot of financial options -

You can add assets & trade for an established star on a big contract.
You can rent out ~$59.5m in cap space for assets with nothing more than Wall's contract.
You'll be able to break the contract into smaller pieces much easier too .... so you don't lose the effective cap space above the cap that his contract represents.


All of those things seem to me a better outcome than adding any asset to the contract and shooing him out the door for a poo platter in return and I see no reason why Silas can't manage the situation - particularly with Wall understanding the situation.