hp - First, you and I both know that Kenny Thomas's career FG% will be well below 54.7%. Please don't suggest this 2 month average is anything more than an aberration which will correct over time...even in the EC. Secondly, IMO anyone extolling the virtues of Kenny Thomas does so for just one reason - they wish he were still on the Rockets. Perhaps you envisioned Kenny Thomas as the starter for the Rockets in some future WC Finals but I did not. Yes, WC PF's get paid to bang and score...no argument. But the successful ones are able to do more: Assists per game Garnett - 5.9 (even though he plays SF, he "bangs" inside) Webber - 5.5 Malone - 4.6 Duncan - 3.9 Horry - 2.9 Wallace - 2.1 Let's contrast these to KT's 1.6. Your comparison to Malik Rose was a good one. This is what Kenny Thomas is - a "10-8" role player..not a WC Finals statring PF. As I mentioned earlier, trading Kenny was a win-win for all concerned. The Rox have a greater chance of re-signing Posey than they would have a malcontented Thomas.
I like the trade and would do it again... KT was good, but in the long run, we got the better deal, if Posey stays...
KT cant start at PF in the WC finals, but he probably will start in the EC finals..and Malik Rose may well start at PF in the WC finals. One thing is for sure, if they do...they wont be out of place.
Isn't KT playing alot at the 3 in Philly. I haven't caught too many Philly games so I really don't know.
Kenny is still better than any PF the Rockets have right now. We would have a playoff spot locked up if not for the trade.
Nope..he could replace Robinson, moving TD to center. But that would depend on Davids status and match-ups. But Malik does pretty well against ANYONE he matches up with.
Don't say I talk about Kenny just to continue an argument. You seem to be repeating the trade argument here, not me. I didn't start this thread, and I didn't ever mention the trade. You brought up the trade. I just like Kenny, and I like talking about him. Just because the Rockets traded him, doesn't mean we have to forever hate him, downplay him, and treat him like dirt by saying he's no better than Malik Rose rolleyes. It doesn't mean we are anti-Rockets, because we follow other players in the NBA, especially ones that we have watched closely since draft day. btw: I'd prefer to continue these threads in the NBA dish, as well. Because they always end up being about the trade. Can't we move on and just talk basketball, not some past trade. What? he shot 48% all of last year, and will this year. He could easily be a 48% player over time. Yeah, people who talk about Najera, only do so because they wish he were a Rocket. People who talk about Jefferson only do so because they wish we had him versus Eddie. Horry, Cassell, MadMax...It's all because we wish they were still Rockets. I'm not trying to win an old argument here. I just like players like Kenny. Next time I see you say something about Najera, I'll use that quote on you about Najera starting in the Western Conf Finals and how you must want that. Why are you comparing him to guys who run offenses and get gobs of touches, as if all players who are role players are unsuccessful. That's another non argument, GATER. I just showed you that Kurt Thomas, Gooden, Keon Clark, Najera and Eddie Griffin have all gone through huge stretches with little assists. Further, Kenny has out-assisted Maurice throughout their careers. Ben Wallace has 1.6 apg on 10 more minutes per game. also, Corliss Williamson has 4 assist in his last 6 games. Kenny has more apg than Corliss this year, and over their careers. Yeah, let's compare all these guys to Hall-of-Famers then say they are all "unsuccessful" for averaging <2 apg. That's a non point, and I've proven it. No, let's contrast them to Ben Wallace, Kurt Thomas, Corliss, Maurice, Eddie, Clark, Gooden, Najera, Lorenzen Wright, Troy Murphy, etc etc etc Even Rasheed Wallace gets huge amounts of touches only has .5 apg more on 7 more minutes...which is right there with Kenny's average at equal minutes. Yeah, and your comparison of Kenny to your list of superstar hall-of-famers: Garnett, Webber, Duncan, Malone was a "good" comparison, too. Kenny is a 10-8 48% player that is looking like a 12-9 or even 12-10. When did I say otherwise? You act like he is a Malik Rose. He is better than Malik, much better. And, imo, he is better than Troy Murphy, mainly because he can play 2 positions, and Larry Brown is proving it. Maybe the fact Eddie Griffin was handed a starting position that he couldn't handle worth crap had something to do with this. Kenny is no malcontent. Rudy would have just sent him to Denver, if he was a malcontent. (Why did Philly get involved in the trade?) KT plays his heart out every game, something Francis is complaining about on our team now. Philly is deeper at SF/PF than we were by far, and Kenny is happy just contributing. He just wanted his hard work rewarded, and Eddie didn't deserve that starting spot, that's pretty much a proven fact. Fact is: malcontent or not, he dealt with it like a pro, didn't complain publicy about Eddie (like Gooden and Williams have) and just brought his game each day. I like guys like Kenny. Get over the trade. That's not why everyone talks about him.
He plays both 3 and 4. McKie plays a lot of 3, too. So does Monte Williams when healthy. Skinner is a 4 with Hill who can both play 5. Larry Brown does an interesting job of using that depth. Brown loves guys who are flexible to play multiple positions, and using them that way.
I have said for quite while KT would create a lot of mismatches and was made to be a quality starter in the East. For the record I also think Mo Taylor would be one of the most difficult 4 to match up with if he were in the east as well. KT is proving he is a good player and valuable player. I hope he keeps it up, he worked hard for us and we got a good player in return for him. I just hope Posey and Griffin prove over time KT was expendable and we did the right thing. The jury is still out, and will be probably a few years. Nothing wrong with hoping it becomes a win-win all around.
hp - I was over the trade long, long ago. The fact is, I posted very little on the subject even as far back as when Thomas was still a Rocket. It was just not worth a comment. He was far from the problem but most definitely not the solution. I defy you to prove otherwise. I had no opinion other than what I just stated. The absolute bottomline for me was that I never, ever, under any circumstances could imagine Kenny Thomas as the starting PF in the WC Finals. If you get excited about some perceived blue collar aspect of his play, that's fine. I didn't see it in Houston and I don't see it Philly where they brought back Ty Hill. For the record, KT has a 45% career FG%. That's good, not great. Many obscure or role playing WC PF's shoot 45%. Cherokee Parks 50.3, Bo Outlaw 56.3, Zac Randolph 50.7. Go back and reread my initial statement about assists. The main thrust was and still is that Kenny Thomas is not the first player that I think of when the word "team" is mentioned.
Dont backpeddle now...You said you wanted to add, that KT only had 4 assists in the previous 4 games..you didnt mention that KT is 4th on the 6ers team in assists per game..... Does that mean hes their 4th best team player? He must be ..using assists as the only measuring stick. Kts 59 rebounds in those 4 games was the news.
GATER, so, let's not mention the trade again. Let's just talk like we are in the NBA dish talking about a scrappy playoff player who's helping his team. I'm talking about Kenny being much better than Malik Rose, and that "team" is not defined by assists for guys like Kenny, Kurt Thomas, Weatherspoon, Lorenzen Wright, Eddie, Maurice, Corliss, Ben Wallace, Troy Murphy, Rasheed, Malik Rose, Keon Clark, etc etc etc. Your assist comparison to superstars is just silly. Philly brought back Ty Hill mainly because they lost MacCullough and Coleman had to move to C. Kenny continues to get more minutes than Hill. Kenny closes the game. And, besides, Kenny has returned to starting. As for KT being a 45% Malik Rose style poor shooter...well, Kenny is 47% right now, and by the end of this season, looks like he will be at 48% given him two 48% years in a row. Malik Rose has never come close to that. Troy Murphy is nowhere close. Lorenzen Wright only has two 48% years his entire career. And if it is merely my "perception" that Kenny is a "blue collar" type player, well, that defines all Larry's role players doesn't it...almost every year. Also the Philly papers and Larry Brown are starting to chime in, too. KT is a superb positional defender with a nose for the ball. This is what Larry Brown said yesterday: <blockquote><hr>Thomas continued his stellar play with 24 points and a season-high 20 rebounds, 12 on the offensive end. He helped the Sixers to a 61-38 advantage on the boards. "I have never been to the playoffs," Thomas said. "Every time I step on the floor I am going to try and help my team win." "<b>Every game he's going to the boards and you can't block him out,</b>" Brown said.<hr></blockquote> This is from Philly.com <blockquote><hr>The Sixers could bottle whatever propelled them through March. The travel was brutal, the crowds hostile, and the time at home scarce. But they bonded on the road, and Thomas has emerged playing better than anyone except Iverson.<hr></blockquote> here's what Doc Rivers said: <blockquote><hr> <b>Doc Rivers after 76ers game</b>: On what the Magic need to work on: “Again, what we need to do is get some rebounds. The only thing I didn’t like about the game is I thought <b>they were tougher than us</b> and that doesn’t sit well right now. I thought the first quarter, the first six minutes <b>they came out to make a point of pounding us physically</b>...<hr></blockquote>Do you not think Doc had at 20 rebound player in mind when he was describing how the 76ers as a team were pounding them physically and being "tougher than us"? Players who get 12 offensive rebounds and don't get plays run for them are often described as a tough, pounder, blue collar type. If he is not a blue collar Weatherspoon/Lorenzen Wright type player who is a decent 48% scorer, what is he? Malik Rose/Najera type with no offense? He's certainly not a finesse player like Corliss who shoots from the outside and doesn't rebound.
Kenny Thomas can't be the starter on a championship team but a 40 year-old AC Green, a 37 year-old Horace Grant, and Samaki Walker can?
Are you seriously proposing that some day in the future: Steve + Cat + Yao = Magic + Byron Scott + Kareem? Or that Steve or Cat + Posey = MJ and Pippen? Or that Steve + Yao = Kobe + Shaq? There's a reason why Nevitt has a ring and Barkley doesn't which transcends skill levels. Look up the word "serendipity" in the dictionary.
GATER, Look at TheFreak's post a little closer. TheFreak is talking about Shaq and Kobe each of the past 3 years. Also, how about Pete Chilcutt (started after Thorpe and started 15 of the 1995 playoff games) Rick Mahorn (7pts/7rpg) was Detroit's starting PF So I guess you seriously think that Francis and Yao have no chance if they had Mahorn, Chilcutt, Madsen, Walker, or an old AC Green, Horace Grant
HP - Fair is fair...you have your opinion of Thomas and I have mine. Tell ya' what..forget our opinions. I'm going to book mark this thread and we will see if all of those coaches you quoted plus the remaining 26 others (Houston not included) cough up the money this summer when Thomas is a restricted FA. Rose re-signed with SA for $4.2M. Thomas currently makes $2.2m so will we see how much the coaches and teams value him when it's time to shell out some cash instead of praise.
GATER, fair is fair if you could even express my opinion of Kenny. Tell me how close I can express yours. You think Malik Rose is better, because Kenny is a malcontent, selfish player without the ability to match up at the 3 or 4 worth 25-30 mpg, which is what role-playing non all-stars get at the PF position on good playoff teams. You think he is a defensive liability and can't defend the 3 or 4. You think he is a 45% scorer, and his rebounding games are a fluke...that no way he can rebound at 6'7 like Clearance Weatherspoon can.
