You shouldn't pay 20 million a year to players that are past their prime who brings nothing but average rebounding. Oh yea, he has another 2 years remaining on his contract. Think about that one.
This is the biggest BS I have heard by the media. Marion has said some dumb things and was probably slightly unhappy because he was under appreciated as we all can see now. But once the tip-off started he was giving 110% and play harder than anyone in this league on BOTH ends of the floor just like he has his whole career. It is kind of like Kobe at the beginning of the year. How he said he was so unhappy, blah blah...well once the season started it was back to business and that is what I love about Shawn Marion. Once the game starts all the extracurricular stuff is forgotten and he just plays basketball. I think that is a cop out by the Suns because they weren't going to increase his salary when his contract expired. Which doesn't make any sense and now they are going to pay a declining Shaq what they could have paid Marion(20 mil, an increase of 3mil from his current salary) so he would be appreciated and he DOES deserve it because of his importance to the Suns since he entered the league.
"There's a lot of teams with size in the West," Steve Nash said. "We added size, let alone a guy with championship experience. One win isn't going to say we're a finished product, but we're on our way, I think, to improving and getting to a place where we're going to feel confident once the playoffs come around." "O'Neal does change things greatly for the opposition," Ginobili said. "It's a big body to bother us every time we penetrate." Thought I would include the quote. Basically it is way too early to judge the trade (particularly with 9 games worth of data), and it certainly can't be looked at as Marion's individual contributions vs Shaq's. Shaq allows Amare to play the 4, where he has been tearing people up. With Marion gone Hill and Diaw, better passers, will get even more roles. Potentially they have a stronger and more imposing front line presence now. And more important, they have flexibility. They can play power like they could never before, Shaq-Amare-Hill-Bell/Barbosa-Nash, but they also can sisutationally play movement/uptempo, Amare, Diaw, Hill (or Bell/Giricek), Barbosa, Nash, in a group all things considered not that much weaker than the one with Marion in for Diaw (don't get me wrong, Marion is much better in most ways than Diaw--but Diaw's edge in court smarts overcomes a lot in a team like they have). Still, lot's of things will determine whether this works--some of which the trade did not impact (except maybe losing Banks). Ultimatly I think much of the Suns fate hinges on guard play (outside of Nash). Barbosa, Bell, and Giricek--those guys need to start hitting 40% of their open 3s (last year these guys collectively shot 43%,41%, 43%) and play better man defense on the perimeter for that team to go far.
It's a dollars game, which makes the Spurs and Pistons so far the best at keeping the core team together. Eventually, most guys will jump for the cash wagon (can you blame them?). Look at Ben Wallace, went with the money and has not been the same since, because the Pistons didn't need him to score. Could happen to Marion also because I think the Suns system fit his game, he's not a player that can create on his own but someone feeding him. We have to wait till the end of the season to see if any of the trades helped or hindered the Suns, Lakers, Mavs, etc...
i dont think the shaq doesnt is the sole reason they are down 0-3. they simply dont know what to do on defense. come on phoenix hasnt played defense in the past 5 years. all of a sudden they got shaq and they want to become like the spurs? ya ok. they should have sticked with their style or completely give up and think about what their identity is..
The Suns aren't quite as bad with Shaq as I thought they'd be. And I don't know if they'd be favored to win a series against the Spurs if they had Marion instead of Shaq (probably not). Their big mistake was letting Kurt Thomas go in the offseason. They thought get better by playing even smaller ball, and it never really worked. They tried to rectify it by getting Shaq, but they lost their best defender and transition player in the process. They could have had a starting lineup of Nash, Bell, Marion, Staudemire, and Thomas, with Barbosa, Hill, Diaw, and Skinner off the bench. I like that rotation better.
WORD! WORD! WORD! Kurt Thomas is the type of player any championship contender would want coming off the bench.
Not at the salary he's making. If he was making $10 mil or less I would vouch for him as a good player. But he's incredibly overpaid for a non-star player who can't create his own shot to save his life. He's terrific at everything else, but he's on par with Lamar Odom. In fact, Odom is better because he can create his own shot and is flat out more talented/better passer and bigger. I like the Matrix, but there is no way in hell you can actually justify paying league max/near max to a third stringer. He can't even be a "second option" because the only thing he can do is be a spot up shooter and crash the boards. He's NOT an offensive player, and only offensive players should get paid that kind of money he is asking for. So relative to his salary or "bang for the buck" value, Marion is highly overrated. May be he was under appreciated for what he did in Phoenix, but that doesn't make him a good deal. As I've been saying for years now: Marion is the best role player in the league and has been for years. He might be the modern day Dennis Rodman in terms of how good he is at his role. He's basically a much better version of Shane Battier and Bruce Bowen, he does being a role player better than anyone else in the league, but gets paid like a superstar. The Suns had every right to look to deal him away because there is no way in hell any sane team would pay him what he's asking for (virtually franchise player type money). Now that doesn't mean they should've traded for Shaq, either. So the mistake, IMO, isn't that they traded Marion but that they got Shaq's albatross of a contract in return.
I would take Odom over him in a heartbeat because Odom's passing abilities are on par with McGrady's, and he can actually post up/do a few more things on offense than Marion can. That being said, it depends entirely on where they play. I would take Marion as a third stringer on the Rockets, but if we traded McGrady I would much rather have Odom because he can do a lot of the things McGrady does in terms of passing/court vision and can create his own shot when needed. So if there isn't a clear second option on the team, then Odom is much more preferable IMO; Marion is born to be a third stringer on a really good team with two superstars. I would say Marion is more active and maximizes his talents more than Odom has thus far in his career, but there is no doubt in my mind Odom is more talented. When the Lakers used to play the Suns, Odom owned Marion every single time in their matchups.
It's mutual. Either way, you have nothing to worry about, DM would never 'overpay' for a third stringer, and I wouldn't either. It's completely hypothetical, but if I was a GM I probably wouldn't trade for either.
"Thus far in his career?" Dude, Odom's an 8-year pro. If he hasn't cared enough to maximize his talent by now, he's not going to start caring all of a sudden in year 9. More talented? Who cares? Kwame Brown has talent. Darko has talent. Eddie Griffin had talent. T-Mac might be the most TALENTED player in the league, but would you take him over Kobe? Lebron? Nash? Heck, I'd take Marion over McGrady! He'd get every rebound, and make us one of the most airtight defenses in history.
Again, I am not saying he's a "great player" and I don't care much for him either, but compared to Shawn Marion, he IS more talented offensively, and a guy who can easily give you 7+ assists along with 7+ rebounds a game. I am not saying Odom is "good," I am saying he's more all-around talented and has exhibited that at various points in his career; it's not a "hypothetical" based on something the guy has never done before. So it's idiotic to compare that to Kwame Brown, it just exposes your complete lack of knowledge about the game to say Odom = Kwame Brown. The difference is that people have been disappointed with Odom's career because he had/has all-star potential, and we've seen 'flashes' of that at times. Kwame, on the other hand, is complete garbage and people get on him because he was the #1 pick and yet isn't even considered a 'good' role player. You know that thing you just said a couple of posts above? Yeah...
I know, dumb stuff. I can't wait for T-Mac to get injured again next season when we most need him, and waste 4th-quarter possessions taking sissy contested fadeaways instead of driving to the hoop. We'll definitely win a title that way.
Why do you expect a PF to create his own shot? Besides, when you have Nash as your PG, why do you need to create? Can Shaq create? Odom is a rare breed of big man. But Odom has his issues. I'd take Marion over Odom any day. When you trade away your best defensive player, and your best rebounder, who also happens to be able to run and shoot, you expect something more than an over-the-hill, 20m-a-year, fat body.
He is NOT a power forward, just because the Suns liked to go small doesn't mean that he's anything but a small forward. Even then, would you really pay a third stringer $17 mil per? I can't believe that the concept of Marion being extremely overpaid for a non-franchise player is being lost on people. I am not saying the Shaq trade was smart, I am saying that ON ITS OWN MERIT, the Suns not paying Marion the kind of money he's asking for was absolutely the RIGHT thing to do. They can have Battier if they really miss that wing defensive player, I will happily take Barbosa off their hands... Did you even read my post? I am not contending that. I already said the mistake was probably trading for Shaq's contract. But that doesn't mean that getting rid of Marion's superstar-like contract demands was a bad thing. He was terrific in the Suns system, but just wait and see how he does elsewhere on teams that don't score as much and don't have the league's best passing PG to find him open for corner threes. Marion is a very good role player, the league's best. But he is NOT a superstar and does NOT deserve anything more than half of the money he's making, at least by league standards for third stringers. When he averages 25, 6, 6 year in and year out while commanding double and triple-teams and his teammates feed off his presence, then let's talk.
Dude "third stinger" means he is on the third five on the team, not that he is the third option on the team. Like Loren Woods on the Rockets is a third stringer. Battier is a first stringer. Battier may be called the third option. That said, I sort of agree with you. If i'm paying someone the max they better be able to create their own shot, or at least be able to create shots for other players. Marion can do neither. He'll never be the best player or probably even the second best player on a championship level team.
