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HOF voters who won't vote for Bagwell

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by the shark, Feb 8, 2015.

  1. the shark

    the shark Member

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    Came across this article that says the Yankess have had more players implicated for the use of PED's than ANY other team (26 total):eek:

    www.sfgate.com/news/article/Yankees-implicated-in-performance-enhancing-drug-3295306.php

    All of these players were reported in the Mitchell report.

    Pitchers
    Roger Clemens
    Andy Pettitte
    Kevin Brown
    Mike Stanton
    Denny Neagle
    Jason Grimsley
    Ricky Bones
    Ron Villone
    Dan Naulty
    Todd Williams
    Carlos Almanzar
    Felix Heredia
    Darren Holmes
    Josias Manzanillo

    Others
    Bobby Estalla
    Jim Leyritz
    Jason Giambi
    Hal Morris
    Chuck Knoblauch
    Randy Verlarde
    Jose Canseco
    Glenallen Hill
    David Justice
    Gary Sheffield
    Matt Lawton
    Rondell White

    Add ARod and that makes 27 players, and since this was written in '08 I could be omitting a few others as well.

    To all these writers who haven't (and won't) vote for Bagwell, because of the BS logic of "guilt by association", I sure hope they do the same for Derek Jeter & Mariano Rivera as that Yankee clubhouse had more known cheaters than any other team.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    I just don't get how they can assume Bagwell took steroids when he wasn't named in any report or player interview regarding the scandal. It will be interesting to see what the voters do next year when Griffey is eligible.
     
  3. conquistador#11

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    i've seen pictures with giambi and jeter smiling together. using their logic, that's enough proof to ban jeter out of everything baseball!
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    C'mon man, you know the rules don't apply when it comes to Jeter. The man who was one of the worst defensive short stops of all time while still winning multiple gold glove awards has a totally different set of rules.
     
  5. Roxnostalgia

    Roxnostalgia Contributing Member

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    Baseball HOF voters are sanctimonious blow hards.
     
  6. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Not terribly interesting - 90-95+% of them will vote him into the HoF.
     
  7. sealclubber1016

    Supporting Member

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    Yeah, for whatever reason Junior seems to be completely above suspicion. Even I feel that way, if you were to ask me which slugger from the era I was most confident about being clean it would be him.

    Not sure why I feel that way.
     
  8. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    The interesting thing will be exactly how much of a percentage he will get. Frank Thomas was at 83.7%. There really hasn't been another power hitter during the steroid era to be elected.

    Without steroids being a factor in voting, I'd guess he eclipses 95%. There is no question he will get elected rather easily. If he finishes closer to 90% it just shows the segment of voters not willing to vote for any power hitter of the era (everyone played with users).
     
  9. DBrunk01

    DBrunk01 Member

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    He had a natural progression of stats for an aging player with injuries piling up. He broke his wrist, tore his labrum, and never really bounced back to his full form, like a normal athlete would. They slowed him down. He was still very very good. But a big picture look at his track record indicates a player who got hurt and played like a player who has had some nagging injuries in the last ten years of his career after those injuries started.

    My opinion, anyway.
     
  10. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    If he used, I'd guess he wouldn't have done it until his Cincy days.

    You want to feel that way. Ken Griffey Jr was arguably the greatest player of our lifetime that hasn't been directly linked to PEDs. It also doesn't hurt that like McGriff, he was never as huge as some of the other power hitters, and he probably had the best swing in baseball for consistently hitting them. He was also perpetually injured, while we've seen most users were able to get over those types of injuries in their 30s.
     
  11. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    It, sadly, comes down to he didn't pack on muscles. That's it. There is no other reason to not suspect him.
     
  12. msn

    msn Member

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    most of them. can we pretty please change this ridiculous, irrelevant, sanctimonious, worthless voting process?
     
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    What works?

    Pro Football is worse, IMO.
    The Veteran's Committee doesn't fix enough of the writers' miscues, and very doubtful they would when it comes to guys from the PED era.
    Fan votes aren't terrible, but they aren't great (and would be a mistake for HOF voting).

    My big hopes are:

    1) BBWAA starts letting in baseball writers outside of the newspaper world (i.e. Baseball America, MLB.com, and numerous other organizations).

    2) Baseball HOF comes out and gives guidance for those who have requested it regarding PEDs

    3) Never going to happen, but I'd like to see them use statistical modeling to include only players with some reasonable chance of being in the hall, and then requiring voters to choose 10 names (maybe fewer, but at least do away with blank ballots or those close to it).
     
  14. Hey Now!

    Hey Now! Contributing Member

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    Honestly?... As much as some of them boil my blood, they've mostly done a decent job of late. They've elected seven players the past two years - which is a lot and will ultiamtely help a guy like Bagwell (not to mention, they're all worthy); they're going to put to rest the baseless PED witch hunt, at least temporarily, by voting in Piazza next year; and as we saw with Raines this year (and Biggio, too, frankly), they're showing a greater possiblity of group think, which will also help Bagwell in the long run.

    As I've jumped into this pool, I've started to realize it really, truly is a marathon. We get so angry with results RIGHT NOW that I think we sometimes forget the bigger picture. Bagwell's results have been mostly disappointing, sure - but other than his first year, he's had 50+% support each year, which - again, stepping back - is pretty impressive.

    I've never felt more confident he's getting in.
     
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  15. SuraGotMadHops

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    and self-righteous turds
     
  16. awc713

    awc713 Member

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    i really hope some voters allude to this next year when all of MLB voters are slobbing on Jeter's bust
     
  17. Buck Turgidson

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    LOL.

    Look at the guys that have been and keep getting busted. Lots of middle IF, extra OF, fringe starting pitchers and a ton of relievers. They'll do anything they can to get and keep a job that pays money. It's always been that way, let me know when you want to talk about speed (then) and Adderall (now, but with a prescription!).

    It isn't, and never has been, about just a bunch of musclebound HR hitters.
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    Oh, and anyone that has voted for Mussina or Schilling or Smoltz should have their votes taken away.

    Not even in the same damn ballpark as the HOF.
     
  19. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    I thought Smoltz always had better stuff than Glavine... which is why he was able to become an elite closer after the TJ surgery.

    The fact that he was able to go back to being an elite starter after the closer stint probably sealed the deal with a lot of voters.

    Glavine has him beat on "wins", which we all know is such an arbitrary stat... and that is somewhat secondary to him having "health" (which is an underrated factor in his ability to accumulate all those starts and wins). He also pitched in the pre-steroid era (along with the post-steroid one), and benefitted from the biggest strike zone ever.

    Never understood the hate for Smoltz... especially after voters put in Glavine on the first ballot.
     
    #19 Nick, Feb 9, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2015
  20. Buck Turgidson

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    None of that should matter.

    He belongs in the Hall of Very Good, along with the guys I mentioned and Roy Halladay and Oswalt and Hersheiser and Kaat and Kevin Brown and Tiant and a bunch of other guys who had great careers.

    If he hadn't pitched with Maddux and Glavine, there's no way he sniffs the Hall.
     

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