Battier and it's not close. He's a better defender and a lot more reliable spot up shooter. He's also team first and does a lot of little things. Ariza doesn't make his teammates better defenders the way Battier does. If Ariza could just shoot, he would be a lot better than battier... but he can't.
Kevin Durant, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwayne Wade, Stephen Jackson, Caremlo Anthony and many others are all laughing at your statement. Battier is a shell of his former self.
The shell of the former Battier is "still" better than Trevor. I'm 33 and I'm a shell of what I was when I was 19, but i can beat 19 year olds because i'm a lot smarter, more savvy, and more experienced.
You guys saying Battier has declined forget that he is trained to funnel his guy to Yao....with no Yao.....uh...that is going to expose anyone. DD
To be blunt, I was entirely unimpressed with Trevor Ariza this season. He was much worse than I thought he would be. In fact, he was so bad that it puts a cloud of doubt in my mind about Morey. Despite a few impressive games, including down the stretch, I just fail to see what made it worth Morey's while. Sure, he is long and wiry and gets deflections. He has pretty good anticipation skills. His rebounding is solid. The biggest surprise to me though is how bad he gets eaten alive defensively, which is supposed to be his strength. He is often out of position. He is physically weak and uncoordinated moving in any direction other than straight ahead. He makes the flashy plays but isn't anything special the other 95% of the time. He is not a fundamentally sound defensive player with great defensive IQ in the mold of Bruce Bowen or Battier. He's anything but that. His ballhandling is worse than I thought, although I didn't expect much. His shooting is abysmal. He just lacks scoring touch. He is a brick waiting to happen even right under the basket. He has zero ability to shoot off of the dribble or create his own shot. He can't drive to the basket and handle contact unless he has nearly an empty lane. Despite his share of bad passes, the most impressive part of his offense to me was his passing ability. He actually has pretty good court vision and has the patience and ability to find the open man in traffic. He also has the length to pass over the top. In the end, his offense doesn't make up for his poor 1-on-1 defense, nor do his flashy steals, deflections and rebounding. Having said all that, Battier is getting old and we don't really have any other options unless it comes through trade or draft. Ariza's contract isn't bad but my conern is that he is. Bud seems like he needs another year or two to even think about being a starter.
On the other hand, maybe if everything else is perfectly designed around him, you can sufficiently mask his deficiencies and benefit from what is really a limited skill set (length, anticipation, defelections, decent passer). In the end, I just think that he milked playing in L.A. for all it was worth and that it's very difficult to build a team around him as strong as he had there with a once-in-genration type player like Kobe along with Gasol, Odom and Bynum. Those guys made it such that almost anybody could have filled Ariza's role. Jamario Moon or Stephen Graham could have done the same thing.
Ariza is young with championship experience, his contributed at the highest level, and was successful at it! While Battier is practically "Father Time" whose declining at a rapid paste, and has never gotten out the first round prior to last year. Ariza>>>>> Battier (Not even close) PS. In all honesty Battier is the most overrated player on the rockets, and quite possibly in the NBA... --RB
The only way to stop a superstar is by making him play defense. Battier struggles so bad offensively is not even funny.
I actually don't mind what some people perceive as an attitude problem with Ariza. I actually like a player with a bit of nasty to his game. If you look at almost every championship team, they had multiple guys who played with an edge and really got under the skin of opposing players and fans. Not everybody is like Lowry, who plays with an edge but always keeps himself in check. I think that Battier is at the other end of the spectrum. He's almost too nice of a guy. I always wished that he played with a little more edge and aggression. It's amazing how much he has accomplished with his nice guy, play it by the book attitude. Battier could also stand to be a bit more selfish on the offensive end. He knows his limitations but accepting them so willingly can at times hurt the offense. I've always felt that he had more to offer at that end, even with his limited athleticism, ballhandling skills and ability to shoot off the dribble.
i'd much rather have battier. he's the better defender, the better leader, and the overall smarter player. ariza is wild and has horrible shot selection (its painful at times). even so, i think battier would be the one to stay if we were to do a sign and trade for bosh. toronto isn't going to want battier because (if they're smart) they aren't planning on being contenders for the next couple of years. they would probably want ariza because he's younger and supposedly has better offensive skills. i think if we do trade for bosh we'd give up ariza instead of battier, which is totally fine by me.
Shane is the better team player, he is about winning, Ariza might get better stats but he's more conscious about getting shots/stats
The poster I responded to made the claim that there was no way we could beat a team with an elite wing if we lost Battier. That's not even close to being true. I'm sure you can lock down 19 year olds, and so can Battier, but that wasn't the point. Battier can probably still lock down and outsmart most young guys. He'll take advantage of players that are more physically talented but still inexperienced all day long. That's not the issue. After last season, you can't consider him as the kind of player you can throw at an elite wing and expect him to limit their production. Stephen Jackson dropped 40+ on us. Dwayne Wade treated him like a turnstile. Numerous wing players had above average games against us. I watch the games, and I can tell you that he is no longer the defender and all around player he was a few years ago when the Rockets acquired him. To suggest that there is no way we can compete with OKC, the Lakers, or any team with a decent wing if we lose Battier is ridiculous. He's still a decent role player, but he's way overvalued around here. He's certainly not a make or break piece of the puzzle. If you think the Rockets can't win without him, fine, but I completely disagree.
I really like Battier, but there's no doubt that his level of play has dropped off the past season or so, and we are in the business of winning basketball games. If moving Shane benefits the team, then I'm for it. His expiring should be attractive to someone, and he could definitely benefit a young team with his bball IQ. I'm not overly impressed with Ariza yet, but I think he will fit/play so much better when we have our "go-to" guys at full strength and Trevor can play with the flow of the game, rather than trying to carry the team. Buddinger is going to be a starter within another year, maybe two.
Agree with all of that. If Ariza is to offer an intangible trait not seen in the stat sheet similar to Battier, its bringing an attitude and edge. Ron Artest was allowed to bring the attitude cuz he's Ron-Ron, but its a problem for anyone else doing it. Battier is allowed to instill is mindset, but Ariza isnt. THEN, Ariza has a similar low key personality to McGrady. Thats enough incrimination by close proximity where there was a thread about that. Thats how it is a player signs a long term deal, that kinda critique is part of it. Though to me, Ariza's on-court bricking and un-fundamental defense was enough to go by, where I didnt have to question his childhood upbringing. I was largely unimpressed by Ariza as well. He had a good 1/4 of the season. BUT with that, it coincided with a lot of identifiable changes. -His play improved right when Kevin Martin arrived. -It improved right when he moved to the SF position. -It improved right when his minutes decreased. Those are things that will carry over and remain in place. Let him be a disruptor (for both teams ), not a focal point
Battier shot a whopping .4 % higher than Ariza did last year while shooting about half the shots Trevor did.
