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Hitchens: Does the left really want the U.S. to lose?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Aug 9, 2005.

  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    BTW basso...

    Iraqi: Iran Smuggling Reports Exaggerated

    Iraq's interior minister said Wednesday that reports of deadly roadside bombs being smuggled into this country from Iran are exaggerated.

    On Tuesday, U.S. Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said some insurgent weapons are entering Iraq from Iran although it's unclear whether they were coming from elements of the Iranian government or from other parties.

    Interior Minister Bayan Jabr told reporters that Iraqi security forces recently opened fire on a group of men carrying boxes near the Iranian border. The men dropped the boxes and fled back into Iranian territory. Inside the boxes were dynamite sticks with some wires.

    "This is all that happened at the border and was very much exaggerated," Jabr said.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050810...ZNX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    apparently, hamas doesn't have google:

    http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism...r+Groups/Hamas+terror+attacks+22-Mar-2004.htm

    Since the beginning of the current wave of Palestinian violence, in September 2000, Hamas has perpetrated 425 terrorist attacks of various kinds, in which 377 Israelis were murdered and 2,076 civilians and soldiers were wounded.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    you're verging on self parody here. it's the very definition of a terrorist organization.
     
  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Iran does not support Hamas, they support Hezbollah. And, yes, Hamas does support terrorism because in their view: Hamas considers all Israelis to be active participants in an illegal occupation of Palestinian land and because Israel's policy of universal conscription implies that a majority of adults serve in either the Israeli military or the reserves for some portion of their lives, Hamas does not distinguish between Israeli civilian and military targets.
     
  5. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    And to make it clear to everyone. Hamas is independent of Iran. They are a movement in Palestine funded by private benefactors.
     
  6. FranchiseBlade

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    Wasn't Hezbollah responsible for hill top shelling of Israeli settlements?
     
  7. basso

    basso Member
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    apparently Hezbollah doesn't have google either:

    http://cfrterrorism.org/groups/hezbollah.html

    Hezbollah is a Lebanese umbrella organization of radical Islamic Shiite groups and organizations. It opposes the West, seeks to create a Muslim fundamentalist state modeled on Iran, and is a bitter foe of Israel. Hezbollah, whose name means “party of God,” is a terrorist group believed responsible for nearly 200 attacks since 1982 that have killed more than 800 people. Experts say Hezbollah is also an significant force in Lebanon’s politics and a major provider of social services, operating schools, hospitals, and agricultural services, for thousands of Lebanese Shiites. It also operates the al-Manar satellite television channel and broadcast station.
     
  8. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Again, don't be ignorant about the situation. From 82 to 90, Lebanon was in war. Besides terrorist attacks occur against hezbollah. The CIA asked Elie Hobeika to kill Hezbollah's spiritual leader Fadlallah, but asked for minimal bloodshed. The assassination attempt failed to kill Fadlallah but more than 80 civilans died. The fiasco lead the CIA to terminate its relationship with Elie Hobeika.
     
  9. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Hezbollah doesn't support terrorism??? The State Dept declared them a terrorist organization in 1996. The Anti-Defamation League calls them a terrorist organization. They were behind the 1985 hijacking of the TWA Airliner. They took Western hostages in Lebanon time and time again...and they blew up a Jewish Community Center in the mid-90's.

    They are a terrorist organization, plain and simple. I don't think there's much disputing that.
     
  10. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I didn't know that, I was just reading bits and pieces off of wiki
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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    .....
     
  12. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    Has anyone considered that Iran is going nuclear for economic purposes? I have read on the CIA's site that much of Iran's economic problems stem from their over dependence on oil exports. I have also read that if population trends continue, Iran will have to import its oil if the current infrastructure remains. Nuclear energy is a good alternative. That, and Khamenei has issued a Fatwa against the production, stockpiling or use of the weapons. The Supreme leader was quoted as saying the very use of nuclear weapons is against Islam. He is right.
     
  13. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Member
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    I asked for examples, and Max provided what you didn't.
     
  14. VinceCarter

    VinceCarter Member

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    its always been about the oil....the only reason why the U.S has concentrated so much in that region (since the cold war) has been because of what happens to be there.... if the ME was more like Africa they wouldn’t have given a squat....though i don't blame the U.S ....i would rather live in a democratic world than a communist world...the U.S had to do what they had to do in the cold war....if that means supporting some brutal regimes i guess it's not all bad.....also we live in a relatively peace world....so we gotta thank the U.S.....positives outweigh the negatives.
     
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Here's a question, will the right ever admit they were wrong on some of their reasons for the war, WMD, links to terrorist, etc. So until they admit their wrong, someone has to point it out.
     
  16. basso

    basso Member
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    no, since neither is correct. the links have been exhaustively detailed elsewhere, but start here if you're really curious. re WMD, read Lord Butler's, and other reports, and tell me if you still believe there were no WMD in Iraq. what happened to them is the real question.
     
  17. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    are you suggesting that the WMD just vanished into thin air?
     
  18. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Check the river beds.
     
  19. basso

    basso Member
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    dunno, if by "AIR" you mean "SYRIAIR", then you may have a point.
     
  20. FranchiseBlade

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    What happened to the WMD has already been accounted for. The vast majority of them were gone due to the original inspections. The rest were taken out by Clinton's targeted strikes, or decayed. It was all in Kaye's report.

    Again the mother of all connections stuff isn't really anything new or proof positive either. Some of what is discussed there is thinner than thin, and certainly isn't proof enough to start a war over, and get thousands of people killed.
     

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