Poor George. There can be no doubt you watched both McCain's and Obama's speeches tonight. You have my sympathy. McCain's about to make Orlando Sanchez's sad mayoral campaigns look like Reagan, Jesus and The Beatles all put together.
I agree completely. It's her responsibility. But tonight was more than merely crowning a winner, at least by usual standards. This was the conclusion of the most historic and incredible primary in recent political history. Her supporters have earned and deserved the nod they were given tonight. I was OK with that, as long as it was framed in the larger context of Obama being the nominee. I thought it clearly was, although Major seems to disagree, and that's fine. But tonight was part of a process, and one that to me indicated the absolute formality of the rest of it. In my initial post, I said tonight or Wednesday, and the reason I suggested Wednesday was knowing the intricacies that go into this. Give them the chance to talk on the phone tonight. Give them the chance to talk about how they want to do this. If Clinton is unresponsive, which I find unfathomable, I agree with you -- she would be betraying the party. It's not the time to go there yet, especially with the undertone (see her initial remarks, and her choice to frame her speech around that) of her remarks tonight. It'll be official soon enough.
If the following is true, and I sincerely doubt we'll ever know if it is or not (though Fineman is exceptionally reliable), it is probably the most horrible example of Hillary-uber-alles-narcissism that's come from the Clinton camp over the entire campaign - a tall order indeed: http://www.americablog.com/2008/06/clinton-campaign-hillarys-not-gonna.html Tuesday, June 03, 2008 Clinton Campaign: "Hillary's not gonna take the [VP] job, don't worry, but don't you dare offer it to another woman" John Aravosis (DC) · 6/03/2008 08:43:00 PM ET · Link 34 Comments · reddit · FARK · Digg It! · Newsweek's Howard Fineman just said on MSNBC at 8:35pm Eastern that the Clinton campaign is demanding that Hillary be offered the VP position, which she will then decline, and then Fineman quotes the Clinton campaign as saying "don't you dare offer it to another woman." Isn't that special. Apparently, Hillary was only planning on breaking her own personal glass ceiling. For the rest of you, you can break you own.
I hope you're right and I'd like to believe you are. But this is not the first time that the meme about choosing another woman being a strong insult to Hillary has been floated. It's been all over the place in the last week. This is, however, the first report of that idea coming from the campaign. Whether Hillary wants VP or not, if she doesn't get it I'd like to believe she'd be happy that another woman might be offered it, not insulted by it. And I would think her millions of supporters (especially the women among them) would feel the same way.
It's been all over the place, but largely from message board and chat room loons. I'm also a bit skeptical of this report -- with something this substantial, you'd think Newsweek or MSNBC would go with it on their Web sites if they believed it had legs. This would be illogical, both for the reasons you stated as well as dozens of others. Every mention of the possible "dream ticket" has come from the Clinton camp, beginning the day after the Texas/Ohio primary! She said she would be "open to it" earlier today. Numerous signs have pointed to her making an under the radar play for VP, as well as several sources confirming as much. To me, it's the single motivation that has defined her campaign since North Carolina, and it's fairly obvious. In addition, think about what this would do to her legacy. If she were to turn it down, why would it be kept under wraps? It wouldn't. The Obama campaign would leak it, of course, to show Clinton voters that they tried. And for Hillary, turning down the VP slot would show her to put her own ego ahead of the interests of the party. It would undermine and define her entire political career. It would ruin her legacy. Furthermore, taking it a step further and barring other females from making the same leap would destroy all the credibility and good will she's built up for women's issues. It wouldn't make sense, on any level. If it were more substantial and had legs, a more detailed report would be out or coming out soon. It goes against everything she's said for months, and all indications from numerous media outlets for weeks. It goes against what she said today, and it would destroy her political legacy -- the one thing we know she cares about most. Don't buy it.
Remember what Hillary did to Jim Cooper D-Tenn when he dared to offer an alternative health care plan to hers when she was First Lady.
The Cat: To be clear, I'm not complaining about the idea that she'd turn down VP if offered (I'd hope it wouldn't be offered and if it was I'd be glad if she turned it down); I'm complaining about the idea that she might resist the naming of another woman to the ticket. I would think that would be outrageous but frankly, after all we've seen this season, nothing's shocking anymore.
Clinton, on Obama: I want to start tonight by congratulating Senator Obama and his supporters on the extraordinary race that they have run. Senator Obama has inspired so many Americans to care about politics and empowered so many more to get involved, and our party and our democracy is stronger and more vibrant as a result. So, we are grateful, and it has been an honor to contest these primaries with him, just as it is an honor to call him my friend. And tonight, I would like all of us to take a moment to recognize him and his supporters for all they have accomplished. Obama, on Clinton: That is particularly true for the candidate who has traveled further on this journey than anyone else. Senator Hillary Clinton has made history in this campaign not just because she’s a woman who has done what no woman has done before, but because she’s a leader who inspires millions of Americans with her strength, her courage, and her commitment to the causes that brought us here tonight. We’ve certainly had our differences over the last sixteen months. But as someone who’s shared a stage with her many times, I can tell you that what gets Hillary Clinton up in the morning – even in the face of tough odds – is exactly what sent her and Bill Clinton to sign up for their first campaign in Texas all those years ago; what sent her to work at the Children’s Defense Fund and made her fight for health care as First Lady; what led her to the United States Senate and fueled her barrier-breaking campaign for the presidency – an unyielding desire to improve the lives of ordinary Americans, no matter how difficult the fight may be. And you can rest assured that when we finally win the battle for universal health care in this country, she will be central to that victory. When we transform our energy policy and lift our children out of poverty, it will be because she worked to help make it happen. Our party and our country are better off because of her, and I am a better candidate for having had the honor to compete with Hillary Rodham Clinton. The latter is conciliatory and unifying. The former is what candidates normally say after every primary (win or lose). Various analysts on the Clinton speech: "Well whatever that was, it wasn't a concession speech." -- FNC's Hume "Clearly, she's trying to position herself, keep her options open." -- NBC's Russert, on HRC's speech (MSNBC). "If I were Barack Obama, if I heard that speech, I would not be very happy. ... They are living in parallel universes right now." -- CNN's Borger. "This was a defiant speech, against all the kind of advice that [heavyweights] within the Democratic Party gave her" -- Ex-WH adviser David Gergen, on whether he was surprised by Clinton's speech (CNN). "She did everything but offer Obama the vice presidency" -- GOP strategist Alex Castellanos (CNN) Jeffrey Toobin: Clinton's Refusal To Concede "Deranged Narcissim" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/06/03/jeffrey-toobin-clintons-r_n_105051.html
I disagree a little. What Hillary said about Barack tonight is what winners say about their vanquished opponents to try to draw them into the winning camp. I turned to my girlfriend after she said it and said, "She's not just not conceding; she's giving a victory speech!" It's not for nothing that she gave the speech two floors below street level where there was no access to TV and spotty cell phone and internet connectivity. It was a speech utterly divorced from reality, given in a venue where news could not even pierce the physical barriers of the room.
I've never, ever, heard that said to begin a speech in the middle of an ongoing campaign. That's what you're overlooking.
By the time of the speech the campaign was not ongoing. It was over. That's the whole point. Every single news organization had recognized that he had received the magic number to clinch. It was not ongoing. It was over. Only she was (and to date still is) pretending it wasn't.
Of course. But my point is that if Clinton wasn't acknowledging this race is over -- if she were still considering making pleas to superdelegates, etc. -- she wouldn't have begun her speech by framing it around Obama and his supporters. It would've been centered around herself and her own accomplishments. Either that, or she has the dumbest speech writers on the planet.
I don't think she's still trying to win; I think she's trying to exercise imaginary leverage. Any leverage she might have by conceding was lost when she waited long past the time he was the obvious nominee and instead failed to concede even after she'd officially lost. That was in poor taste regardless of the difficulty of the loss. It is urgent that our party come together. One person in the world is standing in the way of that. And she is running late. She ought to have done it tonight. If she doesn't do it tomorrow, that's even worse. It doesn't really matter and I certainly don't have any quarrel with you (or really even her anymore), but the idea that this was a conciliatory speech is silly. It just wasn't.
Agree with you completely on the bolded part. How about this idea: Like you, Hillary is very confident the Dems will win in November and she doesn't think there is much risk in these verbal shenanigans. Perhaps she believes McCain is such a sorry candidate that Obama will beat him handily.
Breaking on MSNBC: Obama and Clinton have spoken on the phone and agreed to meet. I'm sure they'll exchange their priorities there on how to tie this up, and from there you'll have the formal announcement.
