How quickly we forget that Clinton also didn't win a majority in his election in 1996. In fact, the majority of American voters didn't want Clinton as President in far greater numbers if you want to make that comparison.
Laughing my ass off. I'll take Clinton's plurality and centrist governance over Bush's BS, manufactured electoral victory and hard right governance every day. I remember. I remember that more Americans voted for Clinton in 92, 96, and Gore in 00 than Bush, Dole or Bush. What do you remember? Or did you forget? News flash: the fishbowl of Harris county is not a microcosm of the nation as a whole, thank god.
It's all relative, isn't it? Clinton won with 42% and Bush had 50%. Also, recounts in other states were showing Gore's totals were inflated, but it didn't matter since the electoral votes were in Bush's favor. But, like I say, that's all history that can't be changed. The future is being written as we debate, and Hillary will boost Bush's chances considerably, like it or not. Speaking as a Republican, Dean concerns me, Hillary does not. Laughing my ass off. I'll take Clinton's plurality and centrist governance over Bush's BS, Hope you have lots of a$$. Will you take the Clinton's criminality, poor foreign policy decisions and un-Presidential conduct as well?
She is smart, she plays the role of the victim to a tee, and she would rather lie than eat. She is the Republicans worst fear, and the Democrat's ONLY chance to challenge Bush in 2004.
You, my friend, are incorrect. I don't know the numbers, I don't have to know the numbers, all I know is that Gore got more than Bush, which makes it mathematically impossible for Bush to get "50%" as you claim. Why are you so afraid of Hilary? or why do you hate Hilary so much? she is just a senator. Once again, I question you right wing haters why some chick from NY via Arkansas and Chicago threatens you so much? Oh, and FYI, I'll take Clinton's private life villainy over Bush's public life villainy 10 times out of 10, as wouold most americans. I mean, we can all look past the fact that GWB was an AWOL coke snorting drunk driving loser, it's his policy decisions that piss me off.
Scaredy cat. She's spent her time in the Senate being dissappointingly moderate and kowtowing to NY's upstate base, who frankly, as a manhattanite, I couldn't care less about.
Johnheath, IMO your first paragraph is corrrect, but I have problems with the second. Hilly would be so busy defending and explaining away her past as well as distancing herself from Billy that she could never sustain a challenge to Bush on the issues. The GOP will unite behind Bush, but Hillary will fracture the Democratic Party by driving away all the moderates and Democratic conservatives. That's why she's spent her time in the Senate being dissappointingly moderate and kowtowing to NY's upstate base, who frankly, as a manhattanite, I couldn't care less about. (thanks SamFisher).
imadrummer: When I say the majority of the country wants Bush out, I'm only referring to the latest polls. That could change, of course, but it's not an opinion. It's based on polling data. thumbs: I understand that H. Clinton's a polarizing figure. I'm not sure you understand how smart she is or how good a politician she is. And I also think you underestimate the depth of hatred for Bush among what is approaching half the country. He is a polarizing figure, too. What I want in a candidate is someone who (a) I can enthusiastically support, and (b) will take Bush on hard and not let up. I don't need to add a (c) for electability. Bush's record is his worst enemy and any credible candidate who stands up to him can win. The four candidates I've mentioned meet my criteria. Clinton's not my top choice, but I'd be very happy with her. serious: I'm no happier than you are about Clinton or Kerry's votes on Iraq. And if they lose out to Dean or Clark on account of those votes, I'll be more than happy. On just about everything else though, I like them plenty.
In my opinion, you Democrats are completing misreading Hillary. Every vote, every speech, and every step she takes is designed to get her to the White House. Do you really think her moderate stance in the Senate is based on her core convictions? She has sat practically silent through this Iraq mess for a reason. She is not the junior Senator from New York- she is a Presidential candidate courting the independent voter. This rumor is a trial balloon meant to test the backlash she might receive (or not receive) for breaking her vow to serve New York. There is another interesting scenario surrounding another "trial balloon" that was floated by the Republicans- Condi Rice in 2008. Could Hillary be far more afraid of Rice in 2008 than Bush in 2004, given that the economy does not recover and we suffer a few setbacks in Iraq (both very possible scenarios)? I think Hillary is much weaker against Rice than Bush, and Hillary knows it. Hillary is a shark that knows when blood in is the water, and 2008 may not be her time.
Greenvegan, why would you vote for Dean? I know Dean was against the war. I'm hoping that wasn't just opportunistic. (Sort of smart as a majority of Demos were against it initially yet all of the others either voted for it because they loved it-- Lieberman, Gephart- or because they were chicken--- Kerry). Is Dean basically a good liberal? a moderate? an opportunist? What do people in Vermont, where I believe you are from, think?
Abe Lincoln once said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time." In comparison Bush will seem a hero in a sustained compaign because of that exposure factor. Hillary is smart but her temper is short and the glare of the press is relentless. She will be their darling at first, but a significant portion of them will turn on her before the campaign is over. Dean is the scariest candidate for Bush, but he and Kerry will slaughter each other, and Gephardt is a non-factor. I don't know why Dean reminds me of a smarter Dukakis.
Wesley Clark was a consultant with the Stephens Group for a few years and the Clintons have good connections with the Stephens Family.
Don't like her. She's bright, yeah, but she is the epitome of a political creature. I don't trust her, don't know her, and doubt i ever will either. She has always struck me as less than inspiring, and while I feel that the best Presidential candidate in the last century was Bobby Kennedy, I generally have a hard time swallowing the nepotistic coat ride that often becomes the political sphere. I would take Clark over her 10 times a week. He's extremely bright, extremely qualified and extremely experienced. Hillary is, at best, one of these, and I don't even think she's all that inordinately intelligent. The fact that she is at all intelligent puts her over the status quo, but she also voted for the war, which gives me the same issues with her that I have with Kerry, only absent Kerry's war record to sort of balance it out. It also strikes me as yet another example of Hillary playing to the political climate. Would she beat Bush? maybe...but aside from now firmly wanting him out of power, I would prefer a President to do more than just win an election. Granted Hillary might do that whereas I'm not sure that any of the other candidates so far entered will...Bush might beat himself, but I also think that a Saddam capture or similar puts Bush back in the driver's seat over Kerry, Dean et al...So in that regard I suppose I'd support her over Bush as the lesser of two evils, but if Clark enters you've got a guy who can both beat Bush and make a great president. Hayes, I disagree, as usual, although we are closer than ordinary: To me Powell vs. Clark is the ultimate win win scenario.
LOL. I'm suprised considering what a stain on our history not having a woman President is in your (cough) humble opinion.
This thread alone shows how divisive she is...honestly, I think she would do more to mobilize the Republicans to get out and vote than Democrats. I don't think Dean does that at all...that's why, ultimately, I think Dean is far more formidable.
Look, I am a political novice compared to some of the heavyweights here, but it is like some other people have said in that Hillary Clinton is a polarizing figure. I mean some of these other candidates like Kerry, Dean, etc are people that I know nothing about. Yet, I will make damn sure that I vote against Hillary because she is condescending, cold, arrogant, and just overall, not a nice person. And this is someone who voted for her husband in '92 (sadly I did not vote in '96 although I would have voted for BC again because Dole was so ridiculous). The whole thing with New York was a f*cking joke. Yes, this country is due to have a woman lead it, but there is no way in hell that Hillary Clinton should be the first woman to do that. Get someone who has a personality and warmth about them. And SamFisher: You keep asking what seemed like about 5 times what is it about Hillary that has conservatives so scared about her? Well, as you know, this country is not too well-liked by other nations around the world. It wasn't well-liked before Dubya and it hasn't gotten any better since he has been President. I am still split on whether or not the war in Iraq was the right thing. Personally, I would like to see the US be an isolationist when it comes to foreign policy but I know that will NEVER happen. However, I do feel that if by some wild chance Hillary Clinton becomes President, the level of hatred that other nations have for us will reach an all-time high. And something inside me tells me that HRC will actually enjoy being hated like that because that is the type of person she is.
Batman, unless you present relevant statistics we will be forced to disregard your opinion. Your alleged comment that "the majority of the country wants Bush out", is very misleading. When you attempt to correlate this to potential election results, you face a serious flaw in your argument. Now be a good thespian and go back and find what the majority of *those who will vote* intend to do on election day. Then you will find a much different answer. Oh by the way, 59% of Americans approve of President Bush. How does that fit in with your novice analysis? The Democrats are on suicide watch right now as the economy is improving, Bush is well liked and Nikita Dean (aka Dean the angry Dictator) is leading in the polls.
