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Hillary Clinton's new book

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Os Trigonum, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    I must be one of those 10%.

    Case in point, you called her an average candidate. "LOL". Maybe if you combined every wack job who ran for candidate, she would be considered average. Hell, I dont even consider John McCain as average. What exactly do you considered average? Again, "LOL" to you're blatant bias. I would have voted Cruse, Rubio and nearly every Republican candidate over Hilary sans Trump, which is why I voted Libertarian. Its just sad people voted for the biggest wack job of the election, Johnson, only because they knew he would never be elected. Keep fooling yourself in thinking Hillary was 'average'.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    This post really didn't help in your assurance that you are part of the 10% who has more than just platitudes in regards to criticism of Hillary.


    Like I know you make better quality posts than this. One of the few non-trolls with a conservative lean on this message board.
     
  3. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Im not going to deny I have conservative leanings. But I am not going to pretend Hillary is an average candidate either. She is far far from it. A decade ago, I may have found her more appealing, but in her later years, she had certainly latched onto this self entitled opinion that she should be the first female president.

    You an argue all night long how Hillary was better than Johnson or Trump, but dont pretend the 3 of them was the worst combo in our presidential race history. Im not going to judge someone for voting Hillary over those two clowns just as much as i wont just someone who voted Trump over Johnson and Clinton. Or Johnson over Hillary and Clinton.
     
  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    It's weird that you'd even have to point out that someone who, if not for corruption, would be ineligible to hold the office due to either willfully or negligently (makes no difference legally) mishandling classified information while Secretary of State. You really don't even have to take it further than that to explain why she wasn't an "average candidate", but for whatever reason, some people just can't accept what should be obvious. More power to them I guess.
     
  5. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Reading the liberal quotes in the book will be great comedy relief.
    Liberals have no understanding of the real world because they were indoctrinated by going to college.
    Every engineer I have ever worked with is conservative.
    I have above average intelligence, and am washed in the blood of our lord and saviour.
     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Member

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    MA EMAILS!!!!
     
  7. RocketsLegend

    RocketsLegend Member

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  8. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    White males rule RocketsLegend!!
     
  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    this is a pretty interesting analysis: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/hi...n-why-white-married-women-didnt-vote-for-her/

    an excerpt:

    Hillary Clinton Has A Theory To Explain Why White Married Women Didn’t Vote For Her
    Doug Mataconis · Monday, September 18, 2017

    Read more: http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/hi...rried-women-didnt-vote-for-her/#ixzz4t2uZgLoX

    I have criticized Clinton on a few occasions (see here and here) for blaming other people for her loss rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that her own flaws and mistakes, and the mistakes her campaign made during the General Election likely played a much larger role in the outcome of the election than any other single factor. That being said, it’s not unfair at all for her to say that Comey’s decision to release that letter in late October was one of the many events that occurred in 2016 and well before that played a role in shaping public opinion about Clinton as a person and that these opinions helped shape their opinions as to how to vote. At some point, we’re likely to see a detailed analysis of Exit Polling and other data that looks at these various factors and tries to determine what the major factors in deciding the election might have been. Even before then, though, it would be foolish to deny that any number of factors might have played a role on the level of the individual voter and that these individual votes may have even had some impact on the outcome of the vote in some states. In a nation where more than 136 million people cast ballots, though, it’s difficult if not impossible to say that any single factor played enough of a role to make a difference in the outcome of the election. As a result, this is a subject that is likely to be hotly debated for some time to come, or at least until the next election rolls around and we have something else to talk about.

    Putting that part of Clinton’s statements to the side, what caught my eye was what Clinton said in an effort to explain why she lost the vote of married white women in suburban communities, a voting block that has been increasingly leaning Democratic in elections across the country for years now, especially in swing states.

    To put it bluntly, and this is based on my interpretation of what she said, what Clinton seems to be plainly arguing here is that some percentage of these voters voted the way they did because their husbands, boyfriends, or other male family members told them to vote a certain way and that they did so notwithstanding the fact that voting is an inherently private act, meaning that nobody will ever know how you voted. It strikes me that this is a view of women, particularly educated suburban women, many of whom are in the working world while juggling a marriage, a household, and living their own lives, that sees them as being so weak-minded that they can be intimidated into deciding who to vote for by the men in their lives be it a husband, boyfriend, father, brother, or close friend. Is it possible that this is true in some cases? Certainly, anything is possible, but it seems hard to believe that a sizeable number of these women who voted for Trump did so for this reason, and there doesn’t appear to be any evidence to support this contention. Indeed, as Sanders notes above, post-election polling by Gallup shows that men and women both based their vote on the same basic reasons that voters have been doing for countless years, the economy, terrorism, and jobs. If a man were stating this, they would undoubtedly be called misogynistic for asserting that women are so simple-minded and pliable that they can be influenced into deciding who to vote for by other people, especially when the women in question are, as I said, generally educated and many of them work outside the home.

    I bring this up for two reasons.

    First of all, this is yet another example of Clinton attempting to find someone else to blame for her loss other than herself and her campaign. Since her book was released, she’s blaming everyone from James Comey and the Russians to the media and the way the debates were handled. As I said above, it is no doubt the case that some or a group of these factors may have had an impact on the outcome of the race on an individual level, and that these individual voters could have had some impact on the outcome of the election. It’s far too early to say that these individual factors, or any group of them, had a decisive impact on the race, of course, and we may never know for sure. However, it’s not illegitimate for a losing a candidate but it’s not entirely illegitimate for a losing campaign to point to these factors as at least a partial explanation for what happened.

    The second reason I bring this up is that of a line of argument I’ve seen from Clinton supporters in conversations online in social media world and elsewhere. Basically, for these people, anyone who seems to be a suggestion that Clinton lost because of some of her own personal flaws and mistakes or the mistakes of her campaign is automatically labelled a misogynist, especially if the person making the comment happens to be male. Is it possible that some of the people who say stuff like this actually is a misogynist? I suppose so, but the fact of the matter is that these types of questions get asked about every candidate who loses an election. Indeed, similar questions were asked back in 2008 when Clinton what seemed at first like it was going to be an easy victory for the Democratic Party’s nomination to a guy named Barack Obama. There is nothing wrong with asking these questions, and asking them does not make one a “misogynist.”

    However, after reading the comments Clinton made in her interviews with Ezra Klein and NPR, if criticizing Clinton can be misogynist, what does that mean for a woman who is essentially arguing that (1) she was entitled to the votes of women simply because she was a woman and (2) that many women didn’t vote for her because the men in their lives told them not to?

     
  10. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Yeah, I don't much care about her at this point, but I've never bought the argument that white women voted against her b/c the men in their lives told them to. LOL.

    The fact that so many women voted for the P-grabber just shows the immense negatives H-dog had as a candidate. We can analyze all we want, blame all kinds of groups, and yes sexism is some part of it, etc., but humans vote as mammals, and as mammals, you have gut reactions to people based on their non-verbals and the sound of their voice. (This is why "teaching evaluations" are proven to be set in students' minds within the first five minutes of the first class, but I digress.) Was flipping through radio channels this morning, and there she was, droning on in some interview about the state dept. under Trump, and what she was saying made sense, but her voice made me want to crash my car just to relieve the agony of listening. [EDIT: Note, before I recognized her voice, I just had a cringe reaction -- "oh man, this person is annoying"; I tried to be more sympathetic once I recognized her. I did vote for her, after all.]

    Basically, she is not a warm, inviting, likable mammal, so she hasn't fared well in elections, like, ever. And never will. Her husband was kind of the opposite. He passes the first-five-minutes test.
     
    #90 B-Bob, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017
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  11. ipaman

    ipaman Member

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    the first (very very quickly) and only politician so far that i've seen politicizing this horrible tragedy. good riddance to this scumbag.


    "we can and must put politics aside, now let me inject some politics" well damn no wonder you lost you freaking idiotic psycho?!?!
     
  12. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    why she lost, sadly
     
  13. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    What a POS. Its bad enough she wasted no time politicizing the disaster, but she only reinforces on the fact she has no idea what she is talking about.
     
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  14. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    She's making an appeal to the fringe left, and those types will eat this up.
     
  15. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

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    Turd Sandwich 2.0 needs to keep her mouth shut.

    Everything she does or says hurts her cause.
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    This is why Clinton lost. Because she couldn't comprehend what matters. She thinks people vote based on experience and policy position points. They don't. They have to like you. And she isn't very likable once you hear her speak. Everything from her nuanced points, fake smile, and unappealing demeanor makes her an awful candidate. She is fine as a SOS, or as an advisor. She's a bureaucrat and people didn't want that. That's the primary reason she lost.

    It wasn't the emails, it wasn't Russia, it wasn't anything but the fact that she couldn't connect to people in a way she needed to. It's no surprised that all of us want her to just go away now.
     
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