Cruz is what the Astros dont need right now. The guy is a career .249 hitter and is currently batting .230. He may hit the occasional homerun every now and then, but that wont help us too much. At this point, we need players that can keep rallies going. Cruz is a rally killer. Also, all this one hit wonder business is being said about Winn. This is his 3rd full season in the big leagues. He hasnt had a chance to prove what he can do. So hes a few months older than Ward and Hidalgo, but that doesnt mean he will go right back into his old self next year. You guys are critisizing a guy that you know nothing about. You look at the stats and that is it. There are many players that play a few seasons and then begin to play better. It happens all the time. How can you expect a player to come right in as a rookie and dominate the big leagues? Players need to adjust and this is one of those cases. Winn has also played on a crappy ass team his whole career, which doesnt help his case. If we can give up Ward in a trade for Winn, then by all means, they have to do it.
I'm gonna laugh when we bring Randy Winn over here and he sucks. Remember when we thought that Roger Cedeno would be the answer? I feel like this is the same situation. Roger Cedeno, except for injuries, wasn't a bad player for us. He had a nearly 0.400 on-base % when he got to play and gave us a legitimate base-stealing threat (25 steals). He was basically an ideal leadoff hitter that year except for injury. In Ward, you're trading a proven power hitter, who will break out any day now. He was the #1 prospect in our organization two years ago, and now you want to dump him for some one-year wonder? He may be fat, but he can flat out hit. Ya'll are giving up on Ward too quickly. Ward is in NO WAY proven. He can hit fastballs out of the park - that's about it. He's even admitted that as a part-time player last year, he saw mostly fastballs and he's struggling to adjust to breaking stuff. There's no telling if he will ever learn. Hidalgo is more similar to Wynn with one great season playing full-time. The difference is that Hidalgo makes lots and lots of money and is two-years removed from that season, while Wynn is cheap and in the midst of that season.
All I'm saying is that it's gonna take alot more than Randy freakin Winn to get out of the first round of the playoffs. Our best bet is to hope Ward and/or Doggy gets hot in the next month.
These guys have proven that that ain't gonna happen. Ward is kind of like Pedro Cerano. "Straight ball I hit very much, but cannot hit curve ball." I've got news for you, Ward won't see many fastballs come October should we be lucky enough to be playing then.
Also, all this one hit wonder business is being said about Ward. This is his 1st season as a regular in the big leagues. He hasn't had a chance to prove what he can do....There are many players that play a few seasons and then begin to play better. It happens all the time. How can you expect a player to come right in as a rookie and dominate the big leagues? Players need to adjust and this is one of those cases. Works both ways Rezdawg. You can't qualify Winn's performance using these mitigating factors & then throw them out the window & declare that Ward is never going to get any better as a hitter. Also, Winn's playing on bad teams is a moot point. You can't make an effective argument that it either helps or hinders his performance. Even though it's a team sport, his achievements at the plate & in the field are individual ones that can't be blamed on a lack of talent around him. It could be that, like you're presuming, a losing environment is mentally detrimental to performance. Or, it could be that he thrives in the low-pressure environment that losing provides. Nobody knows. I've admittedly only seen Winn play in about a dozen games, so naturally that qualifies my opinion of him as something less than expert. But from what I've seen, he has pretty poor plate discipline & average to slightly above average defensive ability. I'm not sure he actually improves this team that much; don't get me wrong, I'm not entirely thrilled with the current OF alignment but I would hope to do better than Randy Winn. If I'm going to give up someone with Ward's talent, I want a little more in return. Wait till the offseason (it'll be a long one).
Also, Winn's playing on bad teams is a moot point. You can't make an effective argument that it either helps or hinders his performance. Tell that to Jeff Kent, whose started batting ~0.450 the day he moved in front of Barry Bonds and returned to sucking ass the day Bonds got hurt ...
Winn's job is to get on base. The concept of "lineup protection" for the leadoff spot is absurd. Are pitchers going to pitch around him to get to the #2 hitter? That would be ideal, take the walk. Are pitchers going to challenge him because they'd rather face him than the #2 hitter? Great, he should get more pitches to hit.
This is the 1st year that the Devil Rays lineup boasts some good players. I think this is a contributing factory to Winn's performance this year. Now, put this guy in the Astros lineup and I bet he crosses home a bunch more times because of the players behind him.
Rezdawg I realize Cruz isn't what we need, but I like his longterm prospects a hell of a lot better than Winn, and if he couldn't succeed here, he probably can't succeed anywhere. The thing is there aren't many teams willing to give up the CF we seek. Now I wouldnt mind acquiring Stewart from Toronto, but he has a terrible arm and plays LF. Btw, by no means do I want to trade Saarloos. I've stated all along I'd deal lower level guys, unless we are talking a longterm stud.
Major, Jeff Kent has not stopped hitting since Barry got hurt a week or so ago. His avg the past 2 months is still around .400. And he continually has gotten 2-4's even with Bonds out. I understand the point you were going for, but the example doesnt fit.
Jeff Kent has not stopped hitting since Barry got hurt a week or so ago. His avg the past 2 months is still around .400. And he continually has gotten 2-4's even with Bonds out. I understand the point you were going for, but the example doesnt fit. Bonds has been out for the last 7 days -- during that time, Kent has batted .269 (although still with power). Granted, it's a small sample, but that's as long as Bonds has been out. Overall, since moving to the #3 spot ahead of Bonds, he has batted .444 (including the last 7 days). Before the move, he was batting .298. I haven't looked at the details of the other times he was out for spotty periods here and there, but this is just the latest Bond injury.
I agree. However, I don't think it would have a marked effect on his OBP, which is what you look for in a leadoff guy. That's why looking at raw run & rbi totals is a poor way to evaluate a player. Those stats are dependent on the players batting before & after, whereas, at least in the case of a leadoff guy, avg & OBP are not. Just my opinion though.
Doesn't surprise me Major, I was just trying to point out Kent is a good major league hitter even without Barry. I know anyone would do better with Bonds protecting them.
Doesn't surprise me Major, I was just trying to point out Kent is a good major league hitter even without Barry. I know anyone would do better with Bonds protecting them. Oh, I agree. I meant "sucking ass" in relative terms to the ridiculous .450+ that he was batting. Bonds actually hit better when hitting in front of Kent as well.
Winn's OBP is .371. That's not a bad little OBP for a guy hitting .322 (5th in the AL) on a crappy team. Saying that he has a bad OBP is just false, plain and simple. It doesn't really matter, we didn't make the deal.
Dammit...I've wronged you twice today. You didn't...you just said it wouldn't be helped by protection. You have to admit that a .371 OBP is pretty good though.
You wanna know what's really sick? Winn's numbers as a leadoff batter: 202 AB 32 R 22 2B 4 3B 5 HR 19 RBI 14 BB 25 K 11 SB / 2 CS .371 AVG .412 OBP .594 SLG 1.006 OPS WOW!
