Alright, I know...it is insulting to this board to bring up going after big name free agents. There has been much diligence in researching the cap and a consensus conclusion has been made that there is no cap room... I did my own research,,,and I agree up until today. There is a way to knock off at least $10.333m from our salary this summer which will get us close to $9m to spend--ie the maximum a 0-6yr player can take. How I came to this conclusion 1. Several people on this board (including me) are in the camp that says, we must maintain the Rocket winning attitude. We must not do any tanking. Some further this by saying, we should do some trades for this year to show the players that management intends to do everything it can to keep winning now and in the future. So, I got thinking about trades. 2. To keep the winning attitude, I have absolutely no qualms with jettisoning the players on this team NOW who are not showing me (as Popeye put so correctly) Heart, Talent, Opportunity. If a losing tumor starts in this organization, it is best to jettison it now; than in a couple years after a failed experiment. 3. Who is not showing me desire. I don't need any help from the board on this one...Walt and Cato are collecting paychecks as far as I'm concerned. Rudy has benched them...they are simply not showing any interest in following our defensive system. Anyone else out there who agrees defense is the key to winning in the NBA, and who also studies the game from a defensive perspective, will agree with me that Cato is playing Sportscenter defense ("That block's going to make Sportscenter"). And will also agree that one man not switching properly can cascade through a defense leaving a hole that can be exposed by any smart team like the Spurs. Everyone on our team must devote themselves to defense focus following Rudy's coaching or the entire defense suffers. With that said...here's a simple plan: If Cato and Walt don't start getting their head of their asses on defense, we can do this: 1. Trade Cato to Clippers for Mo Taylor. Clippers are ripe for a trade like this. If Taylor doesn't produce (he's in his last year), we can rescind him this summer: cha ching = $5.333 + $666k raises freed up that Cato was going to start making next year. 2. Trade Walt+name-it for *any* player in their last year then rescind them in the summer: cha ching = $5m Walt is slated to make next year. That's at least $10.333m we can free up by replacing long contracts with one year contracts then rescinding them once they become free agents...this is within the CBA, I can show you. With that said, I really don't want to trade Cato. Centers with potential like that are too valuable. But, I'm not go to pay for his potential anymore. Come to the game to make your defense presence known Cato, quit jumping at headfakes and getting into foul trouble. If you don't, I'd send him to the damn clippers where you don't have to show up with heart and determination, and Odom can feed him his Sportscenter slams...who cares.
I'm not sure if Cato is a base year player or how that works. But I know that with the current figures you can not trade Cato for Mo Taylor. Way to much difference in salary. [This message has been edited by BoyhoodDream (edited December 18, 1999).]
So you would trade Walt + Cat just to get rid of Walt and free cap space? Looking for a 5 -6 million dollar player with an expiring contract that you wouldn't want to keep You would basically be giving Cat away for nothing. I couldn't pull the trigger on a deal like that. By the way, its not a sure thing that Duncan or any other high profile free agent would sign with Houston. So you could quite possibly lose all the way around with that scenario. The Cato idea doesn't appeal to me either. Mango
I know where you did that research.Thanks. One thing:Wouldn't you like to see Cato start with the Stevie,Cat,Shandon lineup? I think he's a different player when he starts alongside Stevie and the boys. It IS(like you said) very difficult to find a quality center.This being said,if we could get a quality PF,I would seriously have to think about it. HH
Heypartner: A couple of things. *Almost every team in the NBA is capped out. Maurice Taylor is at around $2mill this season. Cato is at $7mill. The Clippers would have to throw in an additional $5mill worth of salaries to make the deal work cap-wise. This gets us nowhere for freeing up room. Same goes with Walt...give up $5mill, receive $5mill. *It's very easy to say, "We'll trade Walt." But what GM in their right mind is willing to take on Walt's $5mill paycheck unless Mobley or something of value is included?
CATO IS NOT AT $7MILLION YET. He isn't....he is in the last year of his rookie scale contract. That is what you are trading. He is on the same scale as Mo Taylor. Cato doesn't start his $42m until next year!!! Cato and Mo Taylor have the same salary. The CBA does not allow the renegotiation of rookie scale year contracts. Cato collects the $42m next year. thecabbage the idea is to trade failed experiments with longterm contracts for failed experiments with last year contracts...then you can rescind them. This happens,,,I'll cite you examples. That frees cap room. I don't know where we find someone to take Walt, either, but apparently some people think that is achievable. Mango I wouldn't not trade Cat either. Everyone I am not making any claims to landing Duncan or Hill; I am saying, if Cato turns out to not give any effort, we can trade him now for Mo Taylor. About the risk of losing it all if it doesn't work 1. that is the whole Cato contract anyhow. If he does not show winning attitude, we lose there too. Read Popeye's arguments about management doing something Simple. 2. Rescinding does not have to happen until the same day you find a better player to sign. instead of sign-n-trade your own players, it's more like rescind-n-sign a free agent. I'm offering the trade long contracts for last yr contracts and rescinding as a simple plan. Again: I don't want Cato to be a failed experiment. I offer this thread as a way to purge his salary this year. Doesn't mean we need to spend it this summer. But if we wait until the $5.333 kicks in, we swap one big salary for another as Cabbage said!! Also, if we got Mo, and he performs, you don't have to rescind him, you can sign him under your Bird Exemption. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 1999).] [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 1999).]
heypartner: You said *any* player, so I took it literally as *any* player. You also have to find this 5 - 6 million player with an expiring contract that you wouldn't want to keep. His current team wouldn't want to keep him either. After identifying this guy, convince the other team that your idea (Walt + ???) is beneficial to them. Odds are better on PJ getting coach of the year than your idea coming to fruition. I will give this variation to your idea. Walt + KT or Rogers + swap of your highest 2000 1st round draft pick with the other team's 1st round draft pick. It will take some extra juice like that to get somebody's attention. No, I couldn't pull the trigger on that deal either. Mango
1. The Rockets are way over the cap room. Some say they are at 43 millions a year currently, that's 13 millions over the cap, even the salary being cut for 10 mils we are still over the cap. 2. If I am the Clippers' GM and a sane one, I would rather get Herb Willams than to take Cato's giant contract judging from his poor performance so far. [This message has been edited by Finalfantasy (edited December 18, 1999).]
Mango Well, how about, $4m Walt + $2.5m Cato = $6.5m to match this year. You convince GMs that want Cato to take Walt as well. I agree wholeheartedly that we are stuck with Walt unless we fork over someone else. I'm saying Cato is available...it doesn't have to be Cattino. I'm saying...light-bulb...if Cato does not show effort now, I'm not waiting for him to show effort next year...I would trade him...and if you can...package him with Walt. This isn't about Walt...we are pretty stuck there. This is about Cato. We are not stuck there. Hopefully, his performance be worth everything... but if not, no one on this board yet has mentioned how to purge his long salary...I'm saying Cato for Mo now. If Mo doesn't perform, rescind his ass, too. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 1999).]
Final The league salary cap is currently $34m, your $30m is last year. The Cap for 00-01 is likely to reach $37-8m. The $43m Rocket Salary is a next year amt, which is about right. Packaging Cato, Walt and unloaded $2m more (Bullard) will get us to $29-30m. I'll show my numbers at a later time. But really, my point is not as much about chasing free agents as instilling a winning attitude, and jettisoning failed experiments. Unload Cato's soon-to-be-large-contract now, if you feel he doesn't have the winning attitude. You don't have to free up cap room next year. You just are deciding not to pay the salary for future cap years. And yes, I believe we can find $6-7m vets who are not worth it, where GMs would pull the trigger for Cato, and take a Walt package as well. Anyhow, off to the game...enjoy people. GO CATO...proove me insane for even suggesting this...I love his potential!!! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited December 18, 1999).]
heypartner: I did a quick peek at players with contracts coming up in 2000 that would be fairly close salary wise to Walt's salary. Tim Hardaway Kendall Gill Anthony Mason Danny Ferry Mark Jackson Rice The teams of the above will want to keep those players or else be glad to have the cap space back and wouldn't want to give it up to carry Walt at the end of the bench for 2 more years. You have been talking money combinations and packages that the Rockets could put together. Start identifying teams that have players with the expiring mid-priced contracts that could tolerate Walt at the end of the bench. Mango
why did cd and the gang sign cato to such a long term contract in the first few weeks? a threat? the triple double against the cavs was cool and all, but you'd think the rockets were 'osterized' with that deal. come to think of it, trade cato for ostertag. people in utah act as if he's the 2nd coming of wilt if he gets a triple nickel. even though he's a total gimp, at least he does get his blocks in. (i'm not being serious by the way)
Mango Thanks...I'll research some more. Do me a favor? I'm not talking about Walt here. Cato is the attraction. Find me someone who'd take a Cato experiment for a $6-7 million last yr player...if they want Cato, then they have to take Walt. Forget thinking about who'll talk Walt. Look for who'll take Cato.
How about this idea: Bucks Get: Cato, Williams, Drew Rockets get: E. Johnson,Tim Thomas, Haywood Workman I am not too sure of the salaries. But I know the Bucks were interested in Cato in preseason. That would give us: Olajuwon/EJ/Hamilton T.Thomas/K.Thomas Carlos Rogers/Bullard/Gray Anderson/Mobley Francis/Workman What do you think? P.S. Thanks for your hard work.
Heypartner... The data is fine with your work, but Im going to have to disagree with the trade proposal of Cato for Mo. 1. The Clipps weren't ready to extend Mo's contract based on his 2 good years, and banking on him having a good season this year. Why would they take on Cato who is slated to make about 9 million at the end of his contract? 2. Cato right now has to be considered a complete bust. His knock for his first few years were that he was a short rebounder for a big guy, didn't have any offense at all, was way to aggressive going after blocks-leading to fouls, and that he was a great shotblocker. Then he had a miserable showing at this years Review. Prompting the Blazers to sign Oneal to a big deal, and basically preparing to deal Cato to anyone for just about anything. Many said given an opportunity to get minutes (away from Sabonis, Oneal, Wallace, and Grant) he might turn it up. So far he hasn't been able to even get minutes on the Rox, minus Hak, Bark, and TMass. This doesn't bode well in a Cato for Mo trade. 3. The Clipps can do better. Two ways to look at it from the Clipps perspective. a. They can get a better player or b. They can choose not to have him count on their cap space. Option a is self explainatory. Not saying Im absolutely right, but Mo is averaging around 17 and 8. Whats Cato doing? Cato isn't showing any signs of yet that he's going to earn his 9 million in the future. Option b. The Clipps could decide that they already have a future at guard. Derek Anderson. A future at Foward, Lamar Odom. And a future at Center, Candy man. They might let Mo get away just to save theirselves the cap space. Right now I think the Rox would have to do a package of Mobley and Kenny Thomas. I believe that the figures are close enough. The eqalizer being that Mobleys deal would also be up. And it would solve more of a roster issue with them than Cato would. As far as Walt goes, I honestly believe that Walt was the driving force in the Pippen deal. Cato made it right for Rudy, but Walt is the player Rudy has coveted for so long, as he put it. Right now Walt isn't doing anything much different than what he normally does. Look at his career shooting percentages. I (key word here) believe Rudy made a huge mistake in thinking that Walt was going to be better than he was anywhere else, maybe even causing him and Dawson to jump the gun on the Pippen deal. Regardless the Rox are probably going to be stuck with his contract for its duration.
After tonight's performance, I would rather give Cato some more time, but if you guys are looking for a team who would want to take him, look no farther than... The New York Knicks I don't know about now [since Ewing is back] but before that, they needed big man help badly. They still are looking for a replacement for Ewing and I am sure they would jump at their offer. Outside of Houston and Spre, there is nothing I want from that Knick club.
Well, Kurt Thomas is regaining his touch, and he showed up in the last playoff for them, I wouldn't mind trade Cato for him.
cabbage... i was thinking about the knicks too... only i was thinking that camby straight up would be a steal. any takers? i'm not sure that new york would ever do it, since camby's game seems infinitely more mature than cato's (that is, if tonight's game wasn't an aberration; as a matter of fact, trade him right now )
