Here we go again...

I have read most of the posts, and I disagree with this assessment. People are simply saying that the current team chemistry (in this case SF) may not be conducive to Yao Ming's development as a franchise player. What you are missing is that a franchise player needs to be provided an environment to grow just like any other player. Ask Toronto why they thought Tracy McGrady was not a franchise player before the shipped him to Orlando. Ask Garnett why he intended to leave Minnessota until they they went out and got Cassell and Sprewell. SF is a great player, but may not be cut out for JVG and the Rockets future. So if and where ever he goes, you can still root for him. For now, most people are rooting for Yao.

It's not your differing opinion that makes people angry, it's the fact that you continue to start fires without putting them out. You don't like to concede your position even when strong arguments are made. Once and a while you'll have a valid point, but that doesn't make you 100% right. You have no balance. Most of us have supported SF in the past so that gives us a right to take it away if we wish. You on the other hand have NEVER showed any support for Yao and so you are regarded as an anti-Yao poster and a troll. If you wish to prove me wrong, reference here any threads for which you had positive things to say about Yao Ming. Otherwise, case closed.

 

induce a high speed collision between him and yetti and see what kind of new poster is formed.

 

1. Your first statement is completely, totally, and utterly false.
2. Please explain the logic.

Pure assertion. Stats are relevant to the extent that they provide useful evidence. Yao's stats show:

1. Dramatic improvement from year 1 to year 2.
2. For this year, put him in a relatively elite category of player.
3. Using his "career averages" as evaluting his present level of play is worthless, because of his development arc.

Please try again.

1. You can't create a valid statistical analysis of the career trend of great centers. The reason is very simple: the sample size isn't statistically significant.

Basic statistical issue.

Please learn statistics before attempting to use them.

The only thing we really know about Yao's development is the dramatic improvement from year 1 to year 2. Are you really claiming that there will be no further development?

All you've currently done is throw out a few career development paths... not of a statistically significant #... and with none that came from circumstances like Yao's.

 

I've seen the light from Juugie now. We shouldn't build around Yao. We should build around Boki! He was clutch last night. Let's surround him with role players!

 

Quote by Juugie:

And the reason why i posted this thread is because after three losses and three bad games by Yao, there wasn't a single thread discussing Yao's declining play.

I actually was wrong about the Phoenix game. Yao did have a good game that night.

This is basically all anyone needs to know about your posting habits. Bash the man. Say, oh yeah, good game the other night. Then continue arguing why you are sooo right and that you are sooo not a troll because you support Yao Ming.

 

The only reason why you continue to post these kinds of threads is just to annoy those Yao-only fans. If they can make Steve bashing threads that annoy you, then you're going to make posts just for the sake of annoying them right back. The difference between you and them is they don't know any better, you do. Judging by their post, most of them are probably 13/14 years old. You're not a stupid person. You know exactly what's going to happen when you continue to post thread after thread about how overrated Yao is. You're posting on a board that is known to have many rabid Yao fans. Do not act surprised that one of your posts degenerates into just a bunch of namecalling. It has happened on every single one of your threads.

That's why you're viewed as a troll and that's why people accuse you of flame baiting.

 

My God, this thread isn't dead yet?!?!?

 

Actually Jughead has been bashing Yao way before he was ever in a Rocket's uniform, he started using the "Trying to get back at Steve-bashers" excuse only recently. I guess he couldn't find any other reason to constantly hate someone and this excuse seems to be in fashion among Steve fans.

I've never seen a person so caught up in trying to bash a player that he ignores the obvious steadily improving trends in the player's performance. Its almost like he's oblivious to Yao's growth and tries to put him to a different, almost impossible standard than other young unproven players.

It's been hinted before and Jughead got all defensive, but I'll go ahead and say it...I think Jugheads a racist. There's no other logical reason for one person to consistently hate another person ,and yet, deflect blame off of others so easily. Not just for that reason, but the fact he's done it for so many years...hell, before Yao even got to the US he's been hating. Why don't you just come out and finally let everyone know what you REALLY think about Yao, Jughead?

 

what i think is funny about why this thread is alive is that all the original points he made in the original post has been defeated.

Yao disappearing during the stretch drive. Okay, how about him stepping up now?

We don't hold Yao to the same level of scrutiny as we do Steve. Alright, lets say we do, who's had the better season? How many times has Steve carried the Rockets into the playoffs.

Juugie -- you don't think Yao is a worth building a franchise completely around. Most of us do. You don't think Yao will become a true superstar. Most of us do. But you can think whatever you want. OK? Now can you stop making threads about it? What do you want to accomplish?

You are what your thread production and output say you are -- an blind Yao disbeliever. Bottom line.

 

Juugie, you have started at least five threads which essentially says the same thing. You have made your point crystal clear. Even my grandmom has known by now that you do not believe Yao is worth building a team around. But I think you should also know by now that majority of the posters here think Yao is worth it. Why can't you accept the fact that other people here do have the right to have a different view than you do. Why is it so hard for you to understand that you are not going to be able to change it by starting redundant threads like this?

 

Steve lead us to a victory this year?? I've seen no such game as of yet. He has had games where he played well but he's never been unstoppable or the 'difference'. Anyone ever notice that SF gets burned consistently on defense. I took a few games from the TIVO and froze the clutch shots by opposing teams and found that generally its SF's man who goes off on us. Mobley and JJ seem to bring the defense and Yao changes shots. Opposing teams know that Stevie is the weak link. Yao has had bad games too but KG and Shaq have bad games, so did Hakeem but that did not diminish his greatness. I see that inYao and saw some of it in Steve during his first season. Where it went with him is unknown.

 

And how does that NOT make you a troll?

What else do you aim to do when you keep starting new threads saying the same thing over and over again? All of your threads, and you have posted at least 10 of them, with increasing frequency recently, probably because you are getting desperate since time is running out for you, only have one common theme - saying Yao is not as good as people think.

We have heard it and acknowledged that that is your opinion.

There really is no point in starting yet another thread with the same theme, so just restrain yourself in the future.

 

Juugie,

Just wondering....did you see the 1985-86 Rocket season?

Let me say a few things about the Rockets, Akeem and the team...

1) We had an NCAA All-American Player of the Year and NBA 1983-84 Rookie of the Year Ralph Sampson.
2) We had a nice guard/forward core group. All good shooters and fast-breakers (Lucas, Reid, Lloyd, Mccray, Wiggins, Leavell...)
3) We had former 81 Celtic coach Bill Fitch.
4) We didn't just have good defense. We didn't just have great defense. We had an "INCREDIBLE, play-volley-ball-with-your-shot DEFENSE!"
5) Akeem was an great physical player from the start. So he was able to make immediate results giving the other 4 conditions I listed above.

Now, fast forward to now. Yao is not of the same physical level. That is coming slowly. But even if he never reaches that level (he wont)....what Yao does have that Akeem didn't was an innate knowledge of the game as a whole. He also has already an incredible outside shooting touch. We have a new coach. New players. And Yao does not have the same quality of teammates (*knowledgeable talent*) surrounding him that Akeem did. That team had pretty good chemistry. And everyone knew their roles.

(Pisssttt...that's why I'm so hard on Francis).

So, it's not like Akeem did what he did in 86 all by himself. He had some pretty good conditions to play in. That's why it took Akeem another 6-7 years to get back to the finals. It takes a team, coach, chemistry, and complimentary players to do that.

Lets say that it takes 5 years to get to the finals with Yao. That's 2 years sooner than Jordan. Lets say that it takes 8 years, but we win 3 titles. That's one more ring than Hakeem. Lets stop comparing Yao to Akeem. He'll make his own history.

The fact of the matter is...Sooner or later the Rockets will get the *right* players around Yao (hopfully sooner than later).

 

But I thought you said that Akeem was unstoppable? Why mention the "6-7" years regarding Lew Lloyd and Mitch Wiggins? Wouldn't that tell you that he needed his team as well? You just contradicted yourself.

Now, on to the 2nd point. Yes, Akeem WAS relentless. He was a physical monster. And yes, he needed *less* "talent" sounding him. But that's why he made such an immediate impact -> He was soooooo physically gifted that he was able to overcome any "lack" of shooting touch or passing ability (his own). He didn't need it at the time. Not with the team he had and speed and quickness he possesed. Now, the team members were not "scrubs" like you make it seem. The team was "good enough." Else, Akeem would have lead his team to the finals from 87 to 1992, right? So, teammates do have more effect on ones success that you seem to think.

So, why even compare Akeem to Yao? Why do that? Since Yao can't dominate on the physical side (to the same extent that Akeem did), why not let him gain some strength and speed first and then mesh that with his incredible skill techniques? He already has the fundamentals down pretty well. And he'll only get better from here. Centers have a tendency to get better with time. Why can't Yao achieve success based on his skills/technique first, then later develop his physical aspects? He doesn't have to rely on his physical ability "to the same extent" as Akeem. Just like Akeem had success on the physical side even though the skill sets weren't quite developed yet. It was a process. Yao is just starting at the other end of the spectrum (skils first, then physical). A method I happen to prefer, by the way.

I'm not even sure what you point is. What? Are you so impatient that you want Yao to lead the team NOW to the finals? You want him to suddenly GROW muscles like Akeem at the snap of the fingers? What?

And another thing...You think that because Yao hasn't lead the team to the finals already (2nd year), then he wont do it in the future?

 

I have not posted much since being a member on the bbs. Go ahead and bash be because I like to read others opinion than post mine, but I agree with the spirit of what Juugie is saying. It is very difficult to get the ball into Yao because defenders manhandle him more than they should on the low block....That chews up time on the shot clock. Yao gets the ball, and is scared to take on a double team (Yes I am implying that yao should be able to take on double teams and score at a high percentage. It is what great players do)... more time of the sot clock. Francis receives ball with less than 3 seconds left and forces up a bad shot, which lowers is percentages. That's why francis averages about the same amount of shots per game as Yao, but with a much lower percentage. I'll leave it at this for now, and not go into why Yao, our franchise player is not in the top 10 in blocks, rebounds, scoring, assists, steals, or any other stat. NOT ONE!!! Olajuwon was top 5 in four of these category at times. There is no comparison between the two, I just used the example show how bad YAO is sucking it up. In short, cut franchise a break. YAO will be the franchise, but we should not rush it on him. He could not even beat out a one dimensional dunking gorilla for rookie of the year. Juugie, hope this makes it a little better on you. I know it is hard speaking up against the masses.

 

I have been emphasizing all the time , the good team does not need to mend strongly , the still more growing team? ? As it always goes, running water is never stale and a door-hinge never gets worm-eaten. Why is U.S.A. strong? ? Why is China strong? ? Because exchange! ! Introduce well, export and does not need , surplus is or more valuable at others' place, prevent from not unsuitable. Could be competitive only in this way! ! So can only sink deeper and deeper to proclaim oneself in step . It is more difficult to chase! ! Just think! ! Without Yao Ming, rocket have nothing to be different originally? ? However, Spurs, the Lakers, where is the king, Timberwolves? ?