You know what Bruce, just for you I will regurgitate some stats. Who's the better 2nd year player stats wise, SAR or Dirk? Btw, both of them were 22 in their respective 2nd seasons so you can't give me that "KG is 19 out of HS" bullcrap. Who's the better player now? The stat you used proves SAR IS MORE NBA READY not that SAR WILL BECOME THE BETTER PLAYER. All those great players you mentioned (Shaq, Hakeem, etc) are great player who ALSO HAPPENS TO BE MORE NBA READY. They did not become great players because THEY HAD BETTER STATS IN THEIR 2ND YEAR. In fact, Dirk is a very good comparison to Yao. Both comes from international leagues and both weren't NBA ready when they got here. Actually it's still advantage Dirk since he spoke English before he got here and played in a better league. So now imagine Dirk, in his 2nd season, but with a MUCH higher ceiling and is also BETTER ENDOWED PHYSICALLY. Well guess what, that's pretty much what you find in Yao. PS. For your info, AT LEAST HALF the posters on this board DON'T claim to know that Yao WILL become the greatest ever. Guess you missed that.
from Oliver67: Nah. But at some point your contempt outweighs your desire to figure out if certain people are trolls. Sadly I think people are sincere. Their basketball knowledge is disturbing, but... I bowed out when I read juugie's rebuttal about Sac and whoever "building thier offense around the hot player". We complain about everyything here and I think even Steve's pretty good about passing to perimeter players who are "feeling it". I essentially decided I'm losing brain cells trying to figure out what a couple of guys have said. But I personally don't think SF is a stupid person and I don't think his leaping into Yao's arms with increased regularity means "damn I'm so tired of carrying your inferior butt and if the damn coach didn't scream at me to throw you the rock I could run this offense right". I seem to think it means something else. Well after Clutch's posts I should have known better. I'm glad SF's loved but his most ardent fans are ...???
hotballa, I expect you to go after every post that says Steve is not a true point guard, is dumb, can't run a fast break, doesn't fit with Yao, or should be traded. Our heads have been bashed in with those 1000 times more than anything said about Yao. So in the spirit of fairness, I'm waiting for you to go through the board and do our duty.
You think that by saying Yao hasn't proven he's good enough to just surround with role players is discrediting him? He had a good game last night- especially the 17 rebounds but he's got to be consistent. Also, we get it. You use your ignore function and think that everyone critical of Yao is a troll. Can you stop bashing our heads in and wasting bandwidth saying the same things over and over?
Just like someone said: When Yao has a good game, you will now grudgingly acknowledge it, just so that you have a defense when people call you the biased hater that you are. But you always say it like "yeah, he had a good game, BUT". When he has a bad game, you will be the first to start a new thread that is full of bias and hate.
And this makes him different from some of the Trade Francis contingent exactly how? A note about civility. Just because someone has a different opinion about something does not make them a troll. If you dont like the guys opinion......dispute it. Follow haven's example and combat it with facts and civil discussion...Im sorry to see that this forum has degenerated to the point that even if someone is so blind to not see the facts in front of him...instead of educating and pointing out what should be obvious to anyone that can watch a ball game with a analytical mind....most of yall choose to call names and bash. What happened to civil discourse? sad..
I'm lost, what do you want me to do? Go to every thread about how SF is not a true PG and say thats not true? I post myt opinions often enough that I think most people who know me understand them by now. I think SF is not a true PG, who is a great player in the fold of AI. I dont want him traded and would like to see him moved to the 2 spot with Brent Barry or another big PG and have Cat traded or moved to the bench. This is my opinion on other threads (if you bothered to check threads other than the ones started by yourself). And yes there are some anti SF people on this board who say the same r****ded things ovber and over again, but noone has taken it to a level like you Juugie, why do you think noone likes your Chicken Little act? It's obvious you're promoting yourself, not SF or the Rox agenda. You like the attention, and you liek to say things which you think makes you look smarter than everyone else on this board who is just a homer or a YOF. Thats why we all think you and Bruce are the same, he takes the exact same condescending tone you have in your posts. I'm curious, enough people have called you two out on that, why have I only heard a couple of peeps denying that claim? Amuse me
Based form what I've seen civil discourse with Juugie amounts to an adult telling a child to stop playing with his food. You can talk all you want, but the kid is stil gonna play with his food because thats what he wants to do, nothing can change his opinion.
Im not saying you should change his opinion...you dont like what he says....fine...I dont agree either. but defending name calling and bashing just because someone has a opinion you dont like is just weak imo... but whatever...Im not tryin to change your mind..Im just pointing out that this kind of discourse doesnt make this bbs a better place...it makes it no better than the hated ESPN or RealGM forums.
First, you say you have a problem because I "bash your head in" with the same points over and over. I said then go to every post where we hear for the 183,282 time that Steve is not smart, can't run a fast break, etc and call those guys trolls and tell them to stop posting the same things over and over. The truth is, I'm and easy target here. It's become such of a Yao love fest that someone with another point of view can be castigated easily because most people are so enamored with Yao that they can't stand to hear anything critical of him. I stand by my point that if Yao played for Phoenix with the same career averages, everyone here would be calling him overrated - just like they do LeBron. And that's okay. But don't mistake blind, emotional cheerleading for rational statistical analysis. And, what's more condescending? Me stating my point or others responding by saying my points are stupid, I need to go away, quit posting, you're a troll, etc?
Juugie ignores that kind of post. I have given him facts over and over again in previous threads. You might have missed that. Still, he comes back with basically the same post over and over and over and over again. It is obvious that he has an agenda. My impression is that, for Juugie, it is not about arguing his opinion. It is about annoying people. I agree with you, Rockets2K, that just because someone has a different opinion, it does not make him a troll. But Juugie is a completely different case. Clutch has noticed it as well, and so have many others. To answer your first question, I am not part of the Trade Francis contingent, but I believe that the people who advocate trading Francis have a case based on some facts. Juugie did already come out with biased posts against Yao before he had ever seen him play. Then he gradually adapted his posts to saying "Well, ok, he is not as terrible as I first said, but he is still not good." Then, later, it was "Okay, he is slightly above average, but he is not as dominant as (fill in name of all-time great)". Etc. etc. I agree that discourse should be civil, but with trolls like Juugie, sometimes that is not so easy. As I can see from your post, he is doing a good job in this thread of getting people who have not followed his posting history on his side, though.
WRONG WRONG WRONG come on SJC...I expected better than that from you. I am not on anyones side....I mentioned already that I was of the opinion that he is not seeing the game subjectively to be blind to what the rest of us see. I was just bemoaning the fact that civil discourse sseems to be a lost art here...you have been around here as long as I have..and you remember when things were different. Dont you miss those discussions? I do. My point from above remains valid.....make your point...make it with facts....dont expect to change someones mind....defen your side of the argument...and let it go if they choose not to make a valid argument back. oh...and btw....the trade francis arguments aren't all fact based either...and you know it...so lets not go there. take my post at face value..I have no hidden agenda cheers my friend...
SJC, the Rockets offense as currently built is getting contributions from a ot of different people. There is a large contigency of people who would like to see most of the scorers traded to bring in shooters and role players that will dump the ball down to Yao every single time. I don't think Yao is good enough for that to be successful. I answer all of your threads. if I miss one or it takes a while to answer, cut me some slack - I have to do SOME work... I don't understand why my differing opinon of Yao makes you so angry.
