Actually, traditionally they did. Things like him not wanting to take orders from scott and rebelling against authority, to feuding for Jean. It was kinda rocky, but not a hint of that anymore.
Crisco: No one is geekier on this stuff than I am, so don't worry bout that. You list of heroes is evidence there already is a Marvel JLA and it's the Avengers. Everyone on your list (except Firestar, Daredevil and Doc Strange, who was a Defender) has been an Avenger. Hulk was one of the founders. And you're right, Thor sucks. I've always kind of thought Doctor Strange sucked too, but Thor definitely does.
I just bought the Long Holloween and Dark Victory graphic novels and Solomon Grundy is a Batman villian, sort of. I think he's a dead guy who was resurrected. All he can say is "solomon grundy, born on a monday."
I'll defer to you on that. I was never as into Marvel as DC by a long shot, but I read all the Claremont/Byrne issues and several after (a long time ago - when they came out) and I just regarded it at tension and W's authority issues. I never thought they hated each other and figured the movies were pumping that up a bit. But again, I'm hardly an expert on Marvel stuff.
Grundy's a villian to everyone now. But he was created in the 40s as an Alan Scott Green Lantern villian and fought the JSA because GL was a member. It was probably fifty years after that before he first fought Batman.
yeah, I know. But they always dilute the team by putting crap on there like wasp, henry pym, quasar, gilgamesh, the black knight and other such stupid characters. I don't particularly like Dr Strange either, but he could be a useful utility character to advance the story(ie he could do telepath stuff, teleportation, heal, useful in battle) as long as you don't throw in too much demon crap storylines with him. I also thought about replacing She-hulk with hulk due to the eye candy factor + hulk storylines are usually boring(i'm rampaging, no im not, im rampaging, no im not) as is bruce banner.
hating may be too strong. But there was tension like there was in the movie imo(I thought they did an accurate portrayal of their relationship). But there was still respect.
More evidence they're just like the JLA. Henry Pym was a founder as Ant Man, but not an icon in the Marvel Universe. Same with the Martian Manhunter at DC. And the JLA's traditionally populated by B or C list characters like Elongated Man, Zatanna, Red Tornado, Firestorm, Gypsy, Vibe, Faith, Major Disaster, etc. And that's not even to mention JLI when they added Blue Beetle, Booster Gold, G'Nort and L-Ron.
Well Pym wasn't an icon because Ant-man(forgot his other alter ego, giant man or something) are sucky ass characters. Martian Manhunter is actually one of my fav DC characters, right next to Batman. I wouldn't want him in a comic of his own, but in JLA I always wanted more martian.
Me too, all the way, Kidd. When I was a senior in high school I called Andy Helfer (editor of JLA at the time) at DC and pitched him my idea for a mini-series to redefine MM and bring him back to continuity, as he'd gone off to search for other Martians and had been gone from the League for years. I'd heard all the complaints about him being a green Superman and had several ideas to make him his own character, along with a four issue plot. He loved the idea, but said that Gerry Conway (who was writing JLA) then was pissed about other writers doing stuff with Aquaman and that all potential JLA characters were off the table. He mailed me a list of available characters and asked me to pitch a series for one of them. But I was in high school and never followed up. Couple years later a MM miniseries came out, edited by Helfer, which incorporated several of my ideas (MM's humanoid form not being his real look, the psychological basis for his fire weakness, the professor who brought him to earth not being dead, etc.). It was too much to be coincidence. I was a little peeved he didn't track me down to write it or give me any props, but I was a very proud fanboy.
I liked both Anti's and CK's suggestions on the Marvel list. I guess I had Magneto as 2nd in command because I couldn't see Dr. Doom agreeing to be second fiddle to anyone. Plus, Doom seems like a good Marvel version of Luthor....evil genius, no real superpowers, good leader type. Oh, Wolverine and Cyclops can't stand one another. This was something that was touched upon as far back when the new team was formed in Giant-Size X-Men #1 and as CK said, Wolvie's lust for Jean definitely sparked this. As a matter of fact, I think currently (although I quit reading the Uncanny X-Men after the intro of Gambit) Wolvie is fooling around with Jean and there is one issue in which the cover is him kissing Jean. However, don't feel sorry for Mr. Summers aka Cyclops as he is fooling around with the White Queen (Emma Frost) who is even dressing up as the Dark Phoenix (mentally in the astral plane)! Yowza!! Rogue is very powerful. She has near invulnerability, the power to fly, super strength, and of course her curse of absorbing the powers, memories, and abilities of anyone she makes flesh to flesh contact. Storm is very powerful as well and Jean, well besides being extremely delicious eye candy (especially drawn by Jim Lee) is not as powerful with her telekinesis and telepathy, but I hear that she has become more powerful now, nothing like the Phoenix clone but powerful than what she was before. But I give the nod to Rogue because she is my all-time favorite Marvel character ever. Batman - I will have to check out the Secret Wars thing. Sounds very interesting. Vision is a good character, now that I think about it, but I couldn't think of any of the other Avengers that were not good characters like Ant-Man, Wasp, etc and I do remember Vision's name. Hmmm, maybe he can be the Marvel version of Brainiac, except he is good, of course, instead of evil. So you guys thought Thor was a wuss? That surprises me, I guess. Do y'all think that because compared to others like Hulk, Iron Man, members of the Fantastic 4, members of the X-Men, etc, he seemed to be weaker or do you feel that way because you thought his stories sucked? I always got the impression that Thor was one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe. Oh, and I agree about Spidey but I included him on my list for one reason only: ratings, ratings, and more ratings! When you talk Marvel comics, he is the first name mentioned (most of the time).
Manny, I'm sure you and CK are right about Wolverine/Cyclops. Thor is one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe -- I just find him deadly boring. And his Asgardian tongue is beyond tedious. The Vision is more a Marvel version of Red Tornado than Braniac. Braniac had no pathos. Vision and Reddy are both from the mold of the machine who wants to be human, and they've both had love affairs with human (well, or mutant) women, too. Of course, the Vision was one of the original Marvel characters (back when he was the original Human Torch in the Invaders), but he didn't develop those character traits til after RT did in JLA if I remember it right. It's amazing how many parallels there are between the two universes.
That is very cool. MM is the only hero character other than Batman(and mebbe his sidekicks) who really seems fleshed out in the DC-verse, though I haven't read their line all that extensively. Though them ripping you off wouldn't surprise me all that much. From what I've gathered from people on the net, the 2 big corps don't give a crap about giving people their due. Ah well.
Is he powerful? yeah, but he's tooo powerful imo, which makes him boring. No real weaknesses(a "god" ), so you have to come up with some gimmick to keep him busy while you actually have a compelling struggle with the other heroes. Plus that asgard stuff is goofy as hell. It doesn't belong in the marvel universe imo. It should be seperate, like transformers, GI Joe, and Conan. And yeah, his dialogue sucks ass.
CK: Other great DC characters are the Ollie Queen Green Arrow (where do you think I get my D&D hotheaded self-righteousness?), Alan Moore's Swamp Thing, the Jack Knight Starman, Animal Man (as written by Grant Morrison) and everybody in Geoff Johns' JSA. Also, if you're not getting the Loeb/Lee Batman right now, you should be. Great stuff for Batman fans. I never really felt ripped off as much as flattered by the MM thing. Our entire relationship consisted of one phone call, in which I was shocked to have gotten Helfer on the phone. He was very friendly and actually offered me a try-out and I didn't follow up. It was kind of cool to see so many elements of my pitch in an actual comic.
Bob, Batman, Crisco, or whoever: Who is that woman in the green directly below Magneto in the upper right? I have seen her before in a Wizard magazine but can't remember her name or who she is a villain to.
