Sorry, I'll try to come back and elaborate, but.... All I really care about at the PF position is the fourth quarter vs Dallas and San Antonio in the Western playoffs. I don't really care about the matchups versus 90% of the teams in this league who have 235 pound PFs. I want a PF who can play against Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitski when everyone on the court knows the ball is going to them and we have to have a defensive stop or a critical score to win the game.
So, I couldn't help but notice that you joined the bbs less than a month ago and you already have nearly 500 posts - shall I say "respect" or you have to much free time?
gosh ur argument is seriously flawed. what u're saying means that the 6'8" mcgrady can play PF as well. so what if hes giving a few pounds. the truth is it doesn't work this way. its all about defensive match much. battier will be abused against most of the standard power forwards the likes of bosh, dwight, duncan, the list goes on. he will be fine on the other hand against our own juwan, marion, nowitzki(who operate better outside), antawn jamison, odom, diaw, melo(he sometimes play power forward) etc.....
a little late to the discussion... but the issue will SB playing the 4 is on defense. OFFENSIVELY, THE ROCKETS WILL BE GREAT! great spacing/shooting/ball movement on defense, if battier plays the four, he leaves our team exposed. will SB do his best? is that pretty good? is he better than JH? can he play PF? the answer is "yes" to all of those questions. but come on people... on defense, yao needs a fierce sidekick down low. SB is not that type of player. i'm as big a rocket fan on here as anybody else, but you're kidding yourselves if you think yao is a dominant defensive player. he's not there yet and his body type may never let him become that. the ideal PF mold to play with yao would be an elton brand type. not necessarily great height, but excellent rebounder, defender, and shot-blocker. i doubt we win a title until we have a defensive, ferocious 4 next to yao... ...though i will root for the rockets every step of the way!!!
I for one completely agree that we need a better paint defender at the four to protect Yao. But here's the problem: We also need someone with a good mid-range game and preferrably a good perimeter game, too. And on top of that, we need someone whom we can get for Juwan Howard and maybe Luther Head or with the TE. Well, how many options does that leave for us? Garnett? Please. Bosh would be great, but I don't exactly see that happening. Haslem is pretty good in those respects, but he is not on the block. In my opinion, this league is not about crafting the perfect team, but being able to still play your game despite matchup problems. Battier CAN play at both the three and the four, McGrady CAN play at both the two and the three, Head CAN play at both the one and the two. Then go out and get a decent post-defender with some shotblocking ability who CAN be rotational player at the four along with Hayes and Battier and also provide us with some help for Yao in uptempo games. And if we can find a way to move Howard for even an overpriced two guard who can bring something to us, then we are in pretty darn good shape. If there is somewhay we can pull that off, then this team will have some of the versatility it has been missing.
I won't lie and say I'm convinced battier can be our "starting" 4 and things will be perfectly fine because of it. with that said, your post was great and it does help me feel at least a little more comfortable with the idea.
I'd rather have Juwan starting at the 4 than Snyder starting at the 2. Battier at the 4 probably means that Snyder gets the starting 2 spot. Juwan is still decent and serviceable, and Snyder is still an up-and-comer with potential. A Battier/Tmac duo is better than a Snyder/Tmac duo. Battier's defense will help relieve some of the defensive pressure and responsibilities placed on Tmac's shoulers (and back for that matter). I hope Snyder makes me eat my words and shines in a Rocket uniform because he would solve a lot of problems with good play. With all that being typed, let's hope the Rockets are close to a deal with either a decent 2, 3, or 4 so that player can learn JVG's system in the offseason rather than gametime. The only way I am comortable with Battier starting at the 4 is if the Rockets make a deal for a 2 or 3 who can help Tmac on the defensive end by guarding the opponent's best wing player.
i dont understand how people can compare juwan with battier. their heights are an inch apart, they both avg about the same, but battier comes out to have more to contribute. it may not be stats wise, but if he could take over at the 4 i wouldnt be suprised if we do better. nothing against jho though, hes had a good career, its just the plain truth that he doesn't fit well into our system. he's shown that he can't contribute very much on the defensive end so why not have battier play at PF instead of allowing jho to play there. problem solved trade jho and rafer for some first rounders 07 draft and stick battier and try sticking sura or JLIII at the pg spot. i dont think itd be so hard to replace rafer since his shooting percentage is nonexistent.
Just because Shane is 5lbs and an inch shorter than some PF that doesn't mean throw him in at PF. We are not a small ball squad. Dallas and Phoenix does not account for 82 games. We are not a team that runs, we slow down the tempo and play a half-court game. Just like Juwan, his efforts are going to be damn near useless in the post. We all know he'll give 800000000% in the game, but it doesn't matter. I always thought our worst problem defensively is preventing dribble penetration and getting abused by the many bigger SG/SF in the league like Josh Howard, Stackhouse, Bonzi. And that's not even getting to Lebron, Wade, Pierce, Kobe. With Shane Battier that problem has been solved. Here's our starting line-up Alston TMac Battier Howard Yao and the bench Head Snyder Novak Mutombo This gives us the best versatility. For those of you who think Vspan, JL3, and Chuck Hayes are going to see more than 10-15min, I don't know how you consider yourself a Rockets fan. You can't be serious. Those dudes are filler players who will only see garbage time or play a few more minutes due to some injury. For those who say "TMac can play the 2, JVG said blah blah blah!!!", you sound stink and don't know basketball. Does 2 or 3 even matter anymore? Ginobili and Bruce Bowen play 2/3. Who do you think gets the better perimeter player? Bowen will play Melo(3), allen(2), Wade(2), or Lebron(on whatever position he plays 1,2,or 3) while Ginobili gets guys like Posey(3), Hughes(2), Buckner(2), and even Rashard Lewis(3). So why won't Shane get the best wing.
If Juwan starts, we are still going to have major problems with preventing dribble penetration and getting abused by the likes of Duncan, Garnett, Gasol, Stoudamire, Marion, etc. etc. etc. not to mention wearing McGrady down trying to chase down smaller SGs.
It's not that Shane is a bad quality player, but the uncertainty surrounding why he's chosen to play the 4. To me, that shows some management issues regarding not being able to land a real, proven PF, but instead opting for a rival's wing defender. Not to mention that we traded a real PF away to get him. I had rationalized the trade as getting someone to take defensive burden off of Mcgrady so he can better focus on his offense as well as reduce strains on his back. It would have made sense to start Mcgrady and Shane at the 2 and 3 with Shane guarding the opponents' best wing player, guys like Paul Pierce, Kobe, and Lebron. But with Shane starting at the 4, that obligates him to guard the opponent's 4, still leaving Mcgrady the burden of being our primary defensive stopper. I see some daunting similarities between what we did with Shane and the Joe Johnson trade. Johnson was brought in to start as THE Hawk's PG (trading away a PG-minded Diaw), and 82 games later the Hawks are still in search of a real point guard. Btw Shane's rebounding stats last year are not bad at all for a SF. I like Shane a lot as a player. I have no doubt that undersized bigmen could be effective (ie Boris Diaw), but only under the right team setting.
So, would people be happy with Hayes at the four, then sliding Battier to the three and McGrady to the two? It's obvious no one wants Howard starting, so I wonder if they would settle for Hayes. If not, then we are back in the same exact quandry of looking for a four who can space the floor offensively with this shooting ability, but protect Yao with solid post-defense and shotblocking in the paint. And, again, were are we supposed to find that person? I just don't see it unless something really interesting shakes loose. I am more than prepared to run with a rotation of Battier, Hayes, and Howard at the four, then Battier occasionally pushing McGrady to the three in place of Head and Snyder.
Any lineup of player we have that has Howard on the bench is fine with me. Hayes is definitely an upgrade. I will get McGrady more shots and will get more high percentage put back layups off the offensive boards. That makes us a better team than Juwan with the on again off again missle jump shot that bounces out to half court and IGNITES the fast break.
Nero, great post. We'll be OK at PF. The real key is Yao. With the exception of Shaq, Yao, if healthy, will abuse every Center in the league. Almost every team will have to use the Center by Committe approach to try and stop Yao. By the fourth quarter Yao will have 20 points from the foul line and our opponents will be out of centers. All we need is someone who can protect Yao from commiting senseless fouls and the route will be on. Everybody keeps talking about all the teams in the NBA going small. Big deal, no pun intended. If our offense goes through Yao almost every play small ball will be crushed, sorta like watching the rest of the NBA trying to stop Wilt Chaimberlan. If I remember correctly sometimes that really got ugly.
At Power Forward What skills do you want? 3 pt Shooting? Battier is better than what we have Is the Offense Yao down Low . . surrounded by Shooters and T-Mac allowed to Create? The question . .. *IS* that the offense we looking at How is battier 20~15 ft? People are saying Battier is not a good create your own shot kind of guy So this shot would be Catching the ball at the elbow Either making the next pass or shooting Perhaps on the Pick and roll etc. Battier SHOULD BE OUR PRIMARY PICK GUY Defense? Battier is more of TAKE THE CHARGE kind of a guy rather than the BLOCK THE SHOT kind of guy One help defense he will be IMO the Secondary guy to protect against Dribble Penetration Folx think he is here to help TMac but IMO he is here to keep YAO out of foul trouble when our guards turn into Matadors This will be his role as PF we all worried about dribble penetration but I don't think Battier ON THE BALL stops it but Him dropping into the lane and taking the charge will cause some hesitancy Rocket River
I agree. Juwan is useless in both help and man defense. At least Battier will be good at helping. If he's guarding 4's, he'll be in a better position to take charges. And he blocks infinitely more shots as well. Also, I'd rather watch Battier shoot left handed then see Juwan put up more wide open bricks. I know that playoff matchups could be a problem if we're undersized, but we're not going to do jack in the playoffs unless we can somehow get a seed high enough to play against the nuggets. Seriously, if the Nuggets win their division, they'll likely be 4th seed, and if we can get that 5th spot, then we can advance. If we play the Spurs, Suns, Mavs, then the starting PF is a pointless debate because we just don't have enough talent to beat those teams yet.
very gd point. i always dun understand y ppl keep argueing what out starting lineup should be. must be those idiots who dun watch basketball
