They are all around in the neighborhood I used to run in. Generally they are there because there is a lot of foot and bike traffic considering it's a residential area. If it is the only one in a cluster of similar intersections, it may be due to an accident occurring there, site lines, neighborhood complaints or any number of reasons.
It quite honestly surprises me that there apparently are a lot of these stop signs at T's. I lived in Sacramento for 20+ years of my life, and I've never seen one. I think it might actually be against state regulations.
Just pay the money and take the online course. Not worth the trouble to go through all that crap to try and save some money. I got a ticket out there in the boonies (Elk Grove) for failure to come to a complete stop even though I saw the cop and did stop. This was at an intersection with cows everywhere (ok maybe not that bad).
I mean this not to be rude, but very matter of fact. What do quotas have to do with this? It's not like you were caught going 2 mph over a posted speed limit and someone was being a stickler. You ran a stop sign. Does it make any difference if you think there should be one there? If you see a stop sign... stop. If you don't, any ticket you may or may not get is probably well deserved. This prevents future discrepancies and confusion. If your insurance was going to give you a bonus for never having gotten pulled over, I'm thinking they were also hoping you'd be stopping when you come up to all stop signs. You didn't see it. That sucks. I feel bad for ya, but really, not so much, because people running stop signs like that cause accidents. Let me ask one question... were you on your cell phone? Just curious. All that said, I'm not sure why you'd expect to get off the ticket by showing up, unless you're just hoping the policeman wouldn't show. Unless there's a no-show, no one ever gets off traffic tickets at the courthouse, at least not that I've ever heard or seen... with or without a good reason, and you don't seem to have one. "I didn't see it" or "It shouldn't be there" just makes it seem worse. Pay the fine, get one of those "erase your ticket" lawyers, or take Defensive Driving. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Sucks, I know, but life is hard, get a helmet.
It's worth showing up at court just to see if the cop doesn't show. If he doesn't, the case will be dropped. Sometimes, they just don't show up.
i agree with a lot of what you said crazydave.. but a lot of people do get off traffic tickets in court. Certain judges seem to accept excuses and promises and whatever else.. (usually you take defensive driving and stuff first to show you're "trying") I know people that have gotten off 7 tickets (i.e. they've received 7 tickets and had each one dismissed in court).. ridiculous, i know. Personally, I've always just paid and done defensive driving/deferred adjudication/ just taken the points on my record..
Go to court and plead not guilty ask for a trial by judge. If the cop shows up to that, plead no contest and you'll get deferred judification which means it won't go on your record if you don't get a ticket for 90 days. It's cheaper than paying the fine and pleading guilty and cheaper if you decided to go the defensive driving route.
1. No, I never talk on my cell phone while driving. 2. My point is that, at a T-intersection in a residential neighborhood, with plenty of visibility, the bottom of the T must always stop for through traffic, regardless of whether there is a sign. The through always has the right-of-way. Hence, what is the point of putting a stop on the through? That sign prevents exactly zero accidents. 3. You can't tell me there weren't more useful things that cop could've been doing, because it just ain't true. 4a. I told my co-workers at work about this incident and got a few interesting stories. One was about a stop sign on a street in the area that turned into a one-way, and the only option when going this particular was was to make a right turn. Well, this co-worker asked, who were you going to stop for? There was no point to this sign being there. Know what happened? Someone tore the sign down. Then the city put it back up the next day. Then someone else tore it down. The city put it back up again. Then someone tore it down a third time, and the city gave up and never put it back up. The moral of the story: these things are supposed to exist to prevent accidents. To protect citizens. Some of them don't do that, and this kind of stuff happens. 4b. Another one of them told me about how they put up a stop sign a little while ago in their neighborhood. There were 700 tickets in a month at that sign. One stop sign. One month. 700 tickets. Zero accidents. Now, would you fault the 700 people, or the sign? 5. I'm now told this stop sign is relatively new, putting me in much the same position as any number of people, apparently (see point #4). Just because it's the law does not mean it isn't BS. So, I reply to you:
See post #31. You think 700 tickets at one sign in a month is justified? You don't think there's a problem with the law there, not the citizens?
Well, hopefully the judge is more forgiving than your fellow CF posters, because you are trying your damnest to deflect blame from yourself to the stop sign. But not everybody will know who has the right-of-way at that intersection; especially if they've never seen that kind of intersection before. There are a lot of bad drivers out there; that stop sign exists to help these bad drivers. At least you know your right-of-ways and traffic rules very well; that'll make defensive driving a breeze!
You're still arguing this?!?!? I thought CrazyDave already explained it to you. No, it must not. You can't come into a neighborhood and make your own rules. If the sign is there already and it obviously is not a prank by some teenager moving signs, obey it. Who gives a darn about how much visibility or where the T is? No, it doesn't where there is a SIGN THAT YOU MUST OBEY. Just because a cop isn't there doesn't give you the right to run stop signs, sir. Don't try to place a police officer catching you running a stop sign somewhere else. Let's see your friends' records. I bet they don't pay attention to signs or disobey them just like you did. Does it matter how "new" it is? OBEY IT. So, I reply to you: STFU and pay the fine or take defensive driving or deferred adjudication. You can't admit you were wrong to a bunch of basketball internet geeks, you won't admit it to a judge. I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, but... good luck in court, sir.
I'm sure it happens, but not that I ever saw. NEXT! "But But but" ... "Pay the cashier at the end of the line"... NEXT! I guess it's the "F' the police" comment, over a stop sign that you did run, that gets me. I mean, they can do some pretty lame things, but this doesn't really fit that category for me. All the bs aside though, I won't get into all the tangents and circular logic.... Your question wasn't "Should this sign be there" it was whether you should bother arguing it in court. My response stands. You deserved the ticket IMO, and I can't see you getting off of this one. But hey, roll the dice, take your time to see if I'm wrong. I won't get my feelings hurt. Hell, I'm wrong all the time... and I wish you sincere good luck.
Again, being in a residential neighborhood, this could be as much for the benefit of foot/bike traffic as it could for car traffic. It could be to ensure cars slow down going through the area. It could be because the neighbors requested it. It could be a trap to earn ticket money. Regardless, it's there and cars have to stop. Being someone who oftentimes runs through neighborhoods, I see folks roll through, bump stop through and flat out run stop signs all the time. I have seen folks turning right from a stop sign simply look to their left and never notice the folks on the sidewalks coming from their right and zip through the stop sign. I have zero sympathy for them. Have you taken your complaints to the city yet?
Quoting Ziggy from the first replay in this thread. That's the central part of the whole point I've been arguing. Apparently everyone thinks I'm a moron. Yes, I ran partway through a stop sign. I know I broke the law. But what steams me is all the million stories I hear of people getting off with warnings for far worse than this, and me with my spotless record gets 3 freakin' points for something so minor. And, again, just because something is the law doesn't mean it's a good idea. I know I broke the law. I never argued that. What I'm arguing is that this particular law is an awful idea, and that cops have more useful things they could be doing with my tax money. No, but I plan to. After talking to my parents, roommate, co-workers, an ex-cop uncle, and a cop friend from another state, it seems this board is the only entity that doesn't think I should fight this one. The county will be seeing me in court.
Feex'd. I disagree here, sir. It's only the few of us who have read your arguments that think you're a moran. I kid, man. Listen, you have a point. But for now, ACCEPT YOU WILL PAY for your mistake. We'll back you up on letting the city/county/state government know they're dumb for putting a stop sign in a place where you didn't think they should have. Honest.
I'm annoyed that I didn't get off with a warning like so many do for more serious offenses. However, I do accept that it wasn't like it was an option for the cop not to pull me over. He was just doing his job. I ran the sign. I accept that. Part of my vehemence in saying that "I'm sure this cop had something better to do" is that a good friend of mine got mugged in a neighborhood a few miles away from where this happened not even three weeks ago. She's pretty damn distraught about that. But you know what the general reaction was to that by people who live in the area? Not shock. Rather "oh, well duh, that's a bad area, she shouldn't have been walking around there alone." And now here's this cop camped at a stop sign in a very good neighborhood giving me a ticket. I'm thinking I'd rather be spending my tax dollars to have that cop patrol the notoriously bad, dangerous area rather than an area that's freaking Pleasantville by comparison. (And if you think it's weird that ghettos are so close to suburban neighborhoods, you've never been to the Milwaukee area. Things are so segregated around here it's laughable.) So yeah, that incident was part of what was coloring my pissed-off-edness. I just didn't mention it in the first post because I figured this thread would be nothing more than "yes, go to court" or "no, don't."
