Cato is the X-factor,but he played very few games last year,and did very poorly when he did go on the court.I don't think that he can play with any consistancy for a full 82 game season.Collier's injury and Olajuwon's absence makes thing worse.We need a decent backup center to take the pressure of Cato.
Mr Finn, Anthony Mason is old as well, and his jumper is flat, which means anyone over 6-8 will be able to cause him serious problems. I saw him get shut down by Arvydas Sabonis for crying out loud. He's also asking for a great deal more money than he's worth.
Mason may be old, but he is not broken down. He brings a hell of a lot more game than Rice does. Dream had some of his worst games against Sabonis, so Mason isn't the only one to have bad games against him.
As far as beating the shaq/kobe tandom goes: By the time the Rockets reach their potential with the young players they have, shaq will no longer be the player he was. What we need to build a team around is us, not some group of players on some other team. If we were trying to win it all next year, that would be a totally new case, but we aren't. Stop worrying about other teams and get the best out of what we have. We should expect serious runs at the title in 5 years or so. Now, our young players need some playoff experience. As far as the shaq thing goes, the man is 300 plus pounds. He will not have a long center career like many of the other greats. Any of the great centers were thin(compared to shaq). I have heard that he plans to retire at the end of his contract. I agree with him, a life of pain with not be worth one more title run. Build a team around our best player and go as far as you can with it. That's how all teams win championships and Rudy and Carrol know that. They are trying to find complements to Steve Francis and will continue to. If you look at it all this way, I think the off season moves make more sense. except for the Olajuwan thing, the man IS houston for god's sake
I think we could beat the Lakers in a 5 game series. Now all we have to do is aim for the #8 spot. The longer the series the less likely you'll have inferior performances from both Shaq and Kobe. HOWEVER, it is important to note that during all of Big Chief Triangle's title runs there was a third shooter who hit big shots in big series. In the Rox new uptempo offense, there should be the same opportunities for (most likely) Rice, and if he is taking open shots at the end of the game, there is no reason we can't beat Lakers. I think you guys are too defeatist. If you are sure we have no shot then why are you going to watch the games? Trivia for the day: How did the word "upset" get its present connotation? Anyone?
Absolutely agree about Mason. If he was matched with Sabonis, he wasn't playing SF. The only deal I have seen rumored about Mason is an S&T with the Bucks for Scott Williams and Darvin Ham - contract value $7.3m. IMHO, Mason could be had for less $ and for a shorter time. Surely the Rocks have a better package than Williams and Ham. I don't think Mason is every teams "cup of tea" and $6m-$6.5m is not unreasonable this late in the FA game. If Mason and Jelani McCoy could be had for about the same $ as Rice, I'll take Mason & McCoy.
I know that most people put him pretty far down on the depth chart (and that some leave him off the chart altogether), but giving tmo a prominent (starting or 6-7th man) role in a couple years makes a great deal of sense if you accept the above. Tmo can hit shots but does not require them, can play aggressive, turnover-creating defense and run the floor better than his main competition down the line (langhi), and already has a year of experience playing with sf plus good rapport. Steve didn't want him just because they're pals. He wanted him because he knows they play well together.
I don't know why people are pulling out #s like 3-5 years to be a title contender... Any team that can crack the top 6 spots in the West and the top 2 in the East is a LEGITIMATE TITLE CONTENDER. I believe this year may be pushing it, but by next year Steve will be in his 4th year, Mobley in his 5th, Griffin will be more comfortable with the system, and we should have a solid center, whether it turns out to be Cato, or something acquired later this year or next off season. I say we are a contender in 1-2 years with a very remote chance this year. The Lakers are no 70 game winning team, so the title is up in the air as far as I am concerned. May the best team take it.
Rocketscientist: Name the last team that won an NBA title without an extremely talented, veteran player. LA- Shaq SA- Robinson Chicago- Jordan among others Houston-Hakeem was 33 Chicago-jordan was a vet Detroit- Thomas, Dumars LA- Magic Boston- Bird How about some high profile teams that lost without a veteran, star player? Well, the Rockets in '86 and the Magic in '95 come to mind. I don't think it's impossible to win wihtout such aplayer. But as much as I hate it, I think it is important to have a go-to-guy with lots of experience in winning. Our best two guys don't even have any playoff experiences, and have never been close to truly contending. What do I really think it is? I think that the team with the best player that year will win the championship 90% of the time provided he has a decent supporting caste. Players usually don't become "the best" in their early years, and that's why you don't see many of their teams win it all. The closest exception is Duncan, but he had a huge advantage in playing with Robinson, who managed to protect him quite a bit. I suppose the other exception to the "best player" theory in recent years would be Detroit, who had one of the top 5 guys in Thomas, plus Dumar, Lambeer and Rodman. that's a lot more than Houston has, right now.
Dumars was not a vet. '89 was his third season. Aguirre, Laimbeer and Vinnie had nearly 3-4 mores years under their belt, not to mention Mahorn. Plus, Detroit beat the Celtics in '88 to reach the finals in Dumars' 2nd yr, and they were a Larry Bird miracle steal away from doing it in '87 (Dumars' rookie year). Dumars was a key piece of the rings (Finals MVP), but he was not a vet as much as Dantley and Aguirre. They don't beat the Celtics without Dantley's veteran scoring, and Aguirre ignited their offensive game as well.
Actually Laimbeer and Vinnie the Microwave had 6 more years than Dumars under their belt. You're slippin' HeyPee....don't let us Juniors down now!!
Granted, we lack playoff experience. This is a HUGE factor and you are correct. However, Stevie and Cuttino both got to play with the likes of the Chuckster and Dream. There have been many must win games from last season that we needed to crack the playoffs. These types of circumstances and the experience that comes from the veteran leadership of 2 of the greatest players to ever touch a Spalding basketball go a long way in transmitting that experience to the 'new guys'. I know there is no substitute for real life playoff experience, but one of the main benefits derived from playoff experience is mental toughness and confidence. Let's look at our team... Stevie, Cat, Moochie, Mo, Rice... these guys are the epitome of arrogance and confidence that runs rampant in this league. They have no fear. Stevie will be put into the limelight this season and he will be tempered. Even if none of the stuff above doesn't = playoff experience, I believe that we are a lock to crack the playoffs this year any where from the 5th-8th seed. Maybe not this year, but I'll stick to my original forecast...1-2 years to bring home another ugly NBA trophy.
I can't believe crispee didn't correct me about my most obvious mistake. Mobley certainly has been in the playoffs
so, to answer your question, Haven 1981 Celtics in Larry Bird's 2nd season. In fact, trading away goto veteran in McAdoo was considered the key move....landing them Parish and McHale. We aren't really going to consider Nate Archibald off the bench to be a veteran go-to guy are we?
Anybody else get the feeling that the thought process is now: 1. By getting Rice and with the new defensive rules, the Rocks are going to: a. Spread the floor b. Let Steve, Cat, and Mooch, play a 2 man game with Mo or Eddie, drive and\or kick with Rice and Mo c. Run, run, run. "Strong offense is as good as a stout defense" d. The new rules allow them to play a zone, which helps disguise their defensive deficiencies so that, 2. When the NBA comes to its senses and modifies the defensive rules (no zones at all, I say in about 2 years): a. Rice will be finishing up his career b. Griffin and Morris will be ready to start (or regulars in the rotation), giving the Rocks 2 solid-to-good defenders (and weakside shot-blockers) in the frontcourt c. Steve and Cat would have evolved into good\great all-around players and defenders (they do have the potential) d. The Rocks hope to have solved their problem at C (via free agency or draft, heart transplant\attitude adjustment\completion of puberty for Cato ) Maybe the Rocks are taking this offensive approach now, allowing the rookies (who just happen to have good defensive makeups) and their young stars to further develop, giving them a solid defensive team with scoring ability (i.e. great all-around team) in the future. Just a thought.
They both were veterans on the team in the title year. The trade went down mid year. The Pistons do not win 63 games without both of them. They were the key vets with Isiah. Dumars was very key, but not a vet like them. In fact, Dumars called Dantley his mentor, and many argue that Aguirre's passing game opened up Dumars' game in 1989. While Dantley just forced his prodding, headfaking, get a foul, offense in the low post; the Pistons were a notably faster team with Aguirre and better on the perimeter because of it. Dantley had profound effect on Dumars as a veteran role model, and Aguirre actually delivered better offensive chemistry for Dumars.
Dantley was shipped because he was a malcontent that couldn't share the ball and created bad chemistry inside the team (notably with Isiah who had him canned for his old Chicago buddy Aguirre). He was a no defense playin ball hog. Aguirre was a ball hog in Dallas but ree-formed his ways when he got the chance to go to Detroit. And so he does not belong on your list of veteran rosters that won a ring, since he didn't.
