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Health Care Revisited

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by thumbs, Nov 26, 2014.

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thumbs Contributing Member

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My time working in the Democratic Party helping move campaign workers and potential workers into tea party affiliations has also changed my thinking on national health care.

It may be time to merge Obamacare, Medicaid and the Veteran’s Administration with Medicare, which basically is a single payer system. But, the question is how to do it so that everyone is somewhat satisfied. That noted, here is my attempt at compromise.

First, I propose that all U.S. citizens 60 years of age or older and all children under the age of three be covered by Medicare. However, when Congress reduces the national debt to $12T, then the new law would automatically begin to cover all persons 50 years or older and children under the age of 10. Premiums for the people 11 to 49 would be relatively low because they are in their “healthy” age. When the national debt is reduced to $7T, all U.S. citizens will be covered.

By combining Medicaid and the VA with Medicare, huge savings -- achieved from a streamlined bureaucracy and harsh fraud penalties -- can be achieved while providing better care for veterans, small children. Rules for doctors and nurses (including not be allowed to work for more than 12 hours without a 12-hour break and loss of certification for gross negligence, fraud, etc.) would be set in place and a national panel comprised of two doctors, two attorneys, two retired federal judges and three random citizens from the state where the alleged wrong is based.

In this way, our fiscal well being is served as expanding health care gradually until everyone is covered. Also, setting up a fair but swift system for firing federal workers for incompetence, negligence, sloth or criminality would save millions by paring our bloated bureaucracies.
The deductions for Medicare would go up significantly, but the benefits certainly would be less expensive than Obamacare and would cover citizens better.

These numbers and ages are merely starting points for negotiation. However, in this scenario Liberals get a single payer system that eventually covers everyone. Conservatives get the national debt reduced to a manageable level and a smaller federal budget. Congress and the administration would be encouraged to reduce the national debt as quickly as possible because they would have health care expansion to take back to their voters.

IMO, something like this might be do-able.

#1 thumbs, Nov 26, 2014

KingCheetah Contributing Member

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thumbs said: ↑

...
Click to expand...

What is all that hidden code in your post?

#2 KingCheetah, Nov 26, 2014
thumbs Contributing Member

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KingCheetah said: ↑

What is all that hidden code in your post?
Click to expand...

I do not understand your question.

#3 thumbs, Nov 26, 2014
KingCheetah Contributing Member

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Click reply on this post or OP to see all random nonsense code...




#4 KingCheetah, Nov 26, 2014
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For better or worse, we are probably headed to a single-payer system down the line. However, there will be no political consensus on that in the near future.

The roadmap? No idea.

#5 A_3PO, Nov 26, 2014
thumbs Contributing Member

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KingCheetah said: ↑

Click reply on this post or OP to see all random nonsense code...
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I can't find any random code. If there is some random nonsense, it is not mine. Mine is the intentional random nonsense. :grin:

I finally found the random code. It probably came from MS Word because I wrote the post in Word, copied it and pasted it in CF.

#6 thumbs, Nov 26, 2014
Last edited: Nov 26, 2014
thumbs Contributing Member

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A_3PO said: ↑

For better or worse, we are probably headed to a single-payer system down the line. However, there will be no political consensus on that in the near future.

The roadmap? No idea.
Click to expand...

There is no reason to give up. If our pols can make concessions to reality and be reasonable rather than intransigent, then we can work our way out of our governmental morass.

#7 thumbs, Nov 26, 2014

GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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thumbs said: ↑

Sorry, but I can't find any random code. If there is some random nonsense, it is not mine. Mine is the intentional random nonsense. :grin:

I finally found the random code. It probably came from MS Word because I wrote the post in Word, copied it and pasted it in CF.
Click to expand...

If you want to strip all that stuff out, paste it into Notepad and copy it again, then all you get is the text.

#8 GladiatoRowdy, Nov 26, 2014
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thumbs said: ↑

There is no reason to give up. If our pols can make concessions to reality and be reasonable rather than intransigent, then we can work our way out of our governmental morass.
Click to expand...

That's a HUGE if, particularly given the state of the GOP these days. Intransigence appears to be the goal.

#9 GladiatoRowdy, Nov 26, 2014
thumbs Contributing Member

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GladiatoRowdy said: ↑

That's a HUGE if, particularly given the state of the GOP these days. Intransigence appears to be the goal.
Click to expand...

The same can be said of the Democratic Party. However, I think both parties got a dose of reality in the last election, and that may force them to work together.

Obama probably will be the principal hitch in the get-along. Obama still thinks his policies were validated in an election in which his policies were overwhelmingly rejected.

#10 thumbs, Nov 26, 2014
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You're living in a fantasy land if you think the national debt is going to be reduced. What you're essentially asking is to increase government spending and reduce debt. How do you propose we do that? That is like living on minimum wage and credit cards, then buying a new car while trying to reduce your old debt.

Obamacare was designed to be a screw up. Medicare could have been extended to cover preexisting conditions and the requirement of insurance coverage could have been tightened up. In that world, I would have paid slightly higher premiums, the same deductible and a little more in medicare a month. I would have been ok with that.

#11 Space Ghost, Nov 26, 2014
KingCheetah Contributing Member

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My time working in the Democratic Party helping move campaign workers and potential workers into tea party affiliations
_____

BTW ~ You're such an infiltrator and powerful motivator to your cause -- teach us your ways.

#12 KingCheetah, Nov 26, 2014
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thumbs said: ↑

These numbers and ages are merely starting points for negotiation. However, in this scenario Liberals get a single payer system that eventually covers everyone. Conservatives get the national debt reduced to a manageable level and a smaller federal budget. Congress and the administration would be encouraged to reduce the national debt as quickly as possible because they would have health care expansion to take back to their voters.
Click to expand...

This is either a phony or disingenuous compromise and whitewashing of conservative policy; Democrats lost a fifty-year Congressional majority trying to balance the budget and push healthcare. You can't do this without cutting military spending, avoiding wars and raising taxes and conservatism is too shrouded in xenophobia, global exploitation and downward class resentment to do any of those things. Liberals probably couldn't care less about healthcare, they just resent institutions and hierarchy and think continually redistributing benefits and services will incentivize effort and ambition among the lower classes and ultimately create equivalent outcomes. Luckily there are enough technocrats and horse-traders in both major parties to keep things balanced and stable.

#13 Dairy Ashford, Nov 26, 2014

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xcrunner51 Contributing Member

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thumbs said: ↑

By combining Medicaid and the VA with Medicare, huge savings -- achieved from a streamlined bureaucracy and harsh fraud penalties -- can be achieved while providing better care for veterans, small children.
Click to expand...

As a physician still in training (mid-way through residency) who has worked at/rotated through 2 VA's, a major private university hospital and a county hospital, I can unequivocally say if healthcare on the whole was made more like the VA, thousands of doctors would quit.

The VA can provide good care, but the sheer amount of bureaucracy needed to make any changes is stunning. The amount of time I spend a day doing administrative paperwork and not doing clinical care or learning at the VA is unbelievable.

Example: The VA still uses an electronic medical record (EMR) system that was originally coded in the 80's. The intensive care unit at the last VA I worked out used a piece of software coded in the 70's in DOS for vital signs. You logged into windows 7 and then into an emulator that ran the command prompt. They still use the blue screen for scheduling clinic visits. You know why it hasn't changed? Because to roll out a new EMR nationwide to hundreds of VA hospitals and clinics would be a massive infrastructure upgrade akin to building the highway system. So we plod on with 30-40 year old software that's a total piece of crap.

Another example: The VA employees are typically apathetic/lazy. There's literally no incentive to be above average and its incredibly difficult to be fired from a federal job.

thumbs said: ↑

Rules for doctors and nurses (including not be allowed to work for more than 12 hours without a 12-hour break and loss of certification for gross negligence, fraud, etc.) would be set in place and a national panel comprised of two doctors, two attorneys, two retired federal judges and three random citizens from the state where the alleged wrong is based.
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Hell no. Non-physicians dictating to physicians how to practice medicine is killing medicine.

Can't work more than 12 hours without a 12 hour break? That's a freaking terrible idea. All that you get is slightly better rested, significantly worse trained doctors. Patient care doesn't stop when your 12 hour shift ends. Continuity of care is critical to treating evolving medical illnesses.

A national panel of XYZ characters including 'three random citizens' judging doctors' actions? Hell no. I didn't train for 20+ years so Joe Sixpack can weigh in with something he saw on Dr. Oz. The amount of training and knowledge that goes into medical decision making is not easily understood by non-physicians, nurses and PA's included.

Basically all I'm seeing is that you want more punitive consequences and more restrictions for physicians and you want to pay them less. Yea, that'll go over real well.

#14 xcrunner51, Nov 26, 2014
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pouhe said: ↑

This is either a phony or disingenuous compromise and whitewashing of conservative policy; Democrats lost a fifty-year Congressional majority trying to balance the budget and push healthcare. You can't do this without cutting military spending, avoiding wars and raising taxes and conservatism is too shrouded in xenophobia, global exploitation and downward class resentment to do any of those things. Liberals probably couldn't care less about healthcare, they just resent institutions and hierarchy and think continually redistributing benefits and services will incentivize effort and ambition among the lower classes and ultimately create equivalent outcomes. Luckily there are enough technocrats and horse-traders in both major parties to keep things balanced and stable.
Click to expand...

The part in bold had me literally ROTFLMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh. This may be the funniest post I have ever read.

#15 cml750, Nov 26, 2014
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thumbs said: ↑

If our pols can make concessions to reality and be reasonable rather than intransigent, then we can work our way out of our governmental morass.
Click to expand...

This is Fantasy Island stuff. Makes me think your OP is sarcasm/trolling instead of serious.

#16 A_3PO, Nov 26, 2014
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cml750 said: ↑

The part in bold had me literally ROTFLMAO!!! Thanks for the laugh. This may be the funniest post I have ever read.
Click to expand...

It's depressing to see someone as scared as you are to not be part of a team. You're like one of those Raider fans with face paint and those spikey shoulder pads who gets in fights at the tailgate because you literally have no other means of expressing ideas, formulating solutions or contributing to anything, ever. "Laughing" at arguments and evidence or referring to them as jokes is a fully transparent misdirect, everyone in the room can tell your haughtiness and forced overconfidence for the ignorance and insecurity it poorly conceals.

#17 Dairy Ashford, Nov 27, 2014
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pouhe said: ↑

It's depressing to see someone as scared as you are to not be part of a team. You're like one of those Raider fans with face paint and those spikey shoulder pads who gets in fights at the tailgate because you literally have no other means of expressing ideas, formulating solutions or contributing to anything, ever. "Laughing" at arguments and evidence or referring to them as jokes is a fully transparent misdirect, everyone in the room can tell your haughtiness and forced overconfidence for the ignorance and insecurity it poorly conceals.
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You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, cml750?

#18 SamFisher, Nov 27, 2014

cml750 Member

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SamFisher said: ↑

You know what you look like to me, with your good bag and your cheap shoes? You look like a rube. A well scrubbed, hustling rube with a little taste. Good nutrition's given you some length of bone, but you're not more than one generation from poor white trash, are you, cml750?
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LOL, Typical Sam going straight to personal insults. Sticks and stones my man sticks and stones.

#19 cml750, Nov 27, 2014
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pouhe said: ↑

It's depressing to see someone as scared as you are to not be part of a team. You're like one of those Raider fans with face paint and those spikey shoulder pads who gets in fights at the tailgate because you literally have no other means of expressing ideas, formulating solutions or contributing to anything, ever. "Laughing" at arguments and evidence or referring to them as jokes is a fully transparent misdirect, everyone in the room can tell your haughtiness and forced overconfidence for the ignorance and insecurity it poorly conceals.
Click to expand...

When you put something as ridiculous as you did in a post you should expect laughter. What you said was so ridiculous and far from the truth it can only be taken as a joke. Seriously, "trying to balance the budget" that is funny stuff there my man. You might want to consider being a comedian.

#20 cml750, Nov 27, 2014

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