Have you met Jesus?

Of course I've met Jesus. He cuts my grass every Tuesday. He's a pretty nice guy and a hard worker too.

 

I'm not anything really, just read some and attended a couple of temples.


Shame and guilt is a part of suffering. The Buddha offers a way out of suffering. Here is a story that Thich Nhat Hanh said about a war veteran who was dealing with such problems. I left out the specifics of the veteran's story but I think we can get it.


". Another war veteran did not accept to sleep in a dormitory. He put a tent in a wood and he slept alone. He set up Booby traps around his tent in order to protect himself. In a circle of six persons, we organized Dharma discussions. And we allowed each veteran to have a time to tell their story, maybe for the first time. We waited and waited, we encouraged them to talk. But there were many veterans who were not capable to speak. On the third day, on the fourth day there were people who got enough strength and courage to begin to tell their story. One of them told us the story about the five children killed in the sandwich ambush. I took him to a walking meditation and I said, "Now, my friend, you have killed five children. All right. But do you know that there are children who are dying today? Do you know that if you, want you can save them? There are children who die a little bit everywhere in the world, including in the United States of America, in your own block. If you know how, then you can save one child a day, or even two children a day. There are children who need just one tablet of medicine to be saved. And that child dies just because she does not have the needed tablet of medicine. Why don’t you use your life in order to save these children? Why don’t you begin anew? Why do you allow yourself to be caught in that feeling of guilt, to kill yourself? The teaching of the Buddha is clear. You can always begin anew. You have killed five children, but you have the opportunity to save fifty children. Why don’t you do it? Why don’t you receive the Five Mindfulness Trainings, making the vow to protect life and to save the life of living beings? Then you go out into the world and you practice compassion. That practice will liberate yourself. When you have the intention to receive the Five Mindfulness Trainings, you are determined not to kill, instead you decide to protect life, to save life and you get a lot of energy within yourself. And with that energy you will not sink into the river of suffering. That energy is the boat. By practicing the precepts, by making the determination to live by the Five Mindfulness Trainings, you offer yourself a boat. As long as you abide by the practice, as long as you stick to that boat, you will not sink into the river of suffering." And the war veteran was greatly inspired. He could not imagine that things could be that easy. He was transformed very quickly, overnight, into an other person. He knew the way out, he had confidence. He knew that he could do it. "The practice of beginning anew is a miracle. It can change us overnight. It can open the door for a new life. It can be done now. You don’t have to wait."


http://www.plumvillage.org/teaching...7 Dec 28 Beginning Anew for the New Year.htm

 

I don’t think that from the Christian perspective forgiveness necessarily comes from understanding. Strictly speaking, I don’t think it relies on understand at all, but understanding certainly helps. You know, I may even be wrong on that. We are called to forgive others as God has forgiven us, and God’s forgiveness is based on faith and grace, not understanding.

 

The OT isn’t really discarded, it’s completed. It was a stage in the process, more like a foundation I guess. It’s still there and NT rests upon it, but the NT changes our relationship with God through the New Covenant. Everything that was a sin in the OT is still a sin, but we are not to live by the law anymore. We are to live by grace through faith. The book of Romans is an excellent summary of all of this, btw.

 

So...shouldn't you still be following the OT since everything that was a sin in OT is still a sin? I mean, you should still avoid sin, right?

 

can open, worms everywhere

 

Well I did minor in structural engineering which is why I'm such a big fan of empiracism.

 

Strictly speaking, we can’t completely avoid sin. It’s impossible. In fact, that was the point of the law, to show us that we can’t make it without God. “All have sinned. All have fallen short.” So the new covenant tells us to live by faith, not the law. This doesn’t mean, however, that we can go around wilfully breaking the law. That is in essence a violation of the faith, of ones relationship with God. (There is doubtless a better explanation than this but I’ll go with this for now.) So the call is to enter into a relationship with God and to continually grow in that relationship. By doing that you will increasingly be living by the Spirit of God and that will show through the fruits of the Spirit which are entirely in keeping with the law. (The Fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. See Gal 5.) So the idea of the NT is that you can’t follow the law in some rote way, nor should you even try. You should pursue an ever deeper relationship with God and by doing that you will increasingly want to behave in ways that are consistent with the law. Have I made this clear, or not so much?

 

There you go. You’ve just pulled yourself back from the brink in my eyes. And here I had you pegged as a prima donna architect.

 

That’s a very good point to raise IMO. There is a vast difference between the stereotype of the Christian Right, and all too often the reality of the Christian Right, and the way Christ actually taught us to live.

 

From what understanding of Christianity that Ihave I believe that when Christians speak of "accepting Jesus" it is specifically an act of faith that Jesus is their personal savior, redeemer of original sin and embodiement of God's love. Again from my limited understanding this act of faith is independent of specific knowledge of Jesus.

I had a friend in College who is a conservative (in the religious sense and not political sense) Jew and he once told me that someone could be a Jew who didn't believe in God but stuck to the Jewish laws. Christianity especially Protestant Christianity seems to be saying that as long as you believe in Jesus you can be a Christian and the rest can be forgiven.

 

Who says I'm not a prima donna architect?

I just happen to like my buildings to stand.

 

So now you're taking a realist's route? Lol. Funny.

Why do people keep quoting from the OT? It's not like you guys follow all the laws. So now you get to follow the laws you want, but not follow the other laws? Maybe that's why people view Christians as hypocrites.

Or maybe it's because they judge others on their beliefs and actions when the bible tells them not to judge.

Or maybe it's because they believe their poo doesn't stink.

Or maybe it's because......

 

I believe the idea of forgiveness and undersanding isn't that you MUST be understanding to forgive but more to going beyond the perceived dual nature of existence.

Buddhism states that existence is all one and that we only percieve it to be broken up into seperate things. Forgiveness of someone who wronged you is acknowledging that it really isn't some other being that has wronged you but really you yourself since you are part of the same thing.

 

I have met a select few. They weren't judgmental. They were nice and friendly and always tried to help. They practiced what they preached. And freely admitted their sins humbly. They would teach others, but would stop when it's evident it wasn't wanted. Etc.

I've met thousands of Christians, but the number of true Christians I can count on my hand.