It's really tough to rebuild when this season was supposed to be our run. When you build all around one player and gather players that fit around him (yao and then acquiring K-mart) and that player goes out with injury for the whole, you aren't left with many options. Personally, I think DM has done a decent job with the hand he has been dealt. Although, I do want to win now, I understand that it might be in the best interest of the team to start rebuilding with young talent.
we're a player or 2 from competing legitimately in playoffs in the wink of an eye. the astros..............not so much.
I wasn't talking as much about the Rockets sneaking in...I was suggesting that the 'stros would have made the playoffs more in a league where more teams make the playoffs than don't...which I know is pretty obvious, but it gets overlooked when trying to compare playoff appearances and success head-to-head.
1. you just described virtually every team in the NBA; 2. you don't got those players without first giving up some of the depth that forms your opinion about the strength of this team; 3. obviously it's subjective argument...but i bet I can come up with 2 players that are capable of getting the 'stros to the playoffs this year...and once you get to the playoffs in MLB, you've got a shot.
why was THIS season supposed to be our run?? i never saw it that way. i realize many of you bought into that...but geez...our best player was recovering from a SEASON ENDING INJURY and started the season on limited minutes...he had missed right about as many games as he'd played over the previous 3 or 4 seasons. our other anchor had been shipped off because of injury issues, as well.
You can't try and compare the Astros to the Rockets. The sports are completely different from the ground up. The Astro's realized that they needed to get younger and thankfully have started drafting better and doing the right things they've needed to. Rebuilding in baseball takes years longer than the NBA level. Also baseball is a much harder sport for a team to compete as only 8 total teams even make the playoffs compared to the NBA's 16........ Even with the Astro's misfortune recently they've still been the most relevant/successful Houston sports franchise in the past decade. Did the Rockets make it to the finals in the past 10 years? What about the Western Conference finals? Because if your trying to compare, the Astro's did the equivalent of that on more than one occasion not to long ago. I'm sick of Rocket fans ragging on the Astro's franchise when the Rockets have been just as irrelevant for even a longer time. What have the Rockets done so well to make them so highly regarded in the past few seasons.....? The Astros at least have a clear direction whereas the Rockets are still in limbo and are wondering which way to go. Drayton up until recently has been one of the best owners in baseball.
Winning 50+ games in the western conference is not easy. The Rockets have done it four out of the previous six seasons.
Had this argument with you before in past threads and you make some good points. However I still think that Les is the better owner, but the two sports are much different especially in the salary cap era we have now. Drayton was "all in" on alot of the past seasons during the Berkman years when he should have been, but just surrounded him with the wrong guys. They made trades for Carlos Lee and Mike Hampton when they really should have been surrounding him with young talent and some vets on more reasonable deals. It wasn't Drayton's fault that Berkman bombed and severly declined, Biggio retired, and Carlos Lee turned out to be an overpaid dud. Those moves hurt the team financially and thats something I really couldn't see Les Alexander and Morey making, but again its two different sports with much different salary cap situtations. The Astros have been able to shed alot of the bad contracts and start the youth movement. The Veterans that the Rockets employ are relatively inexpensive and still hold value but the only problem is that the wrong ones are getting all the minutes. -I would compare the Rockets mistakes vs. the Astros mistakes in one solid way that they both should take to heart. -The Astros were at their best when they had great pitching -The Rockets have been at their best when they had great defense -Offense makes your somewhat competitive, but defense is what gets you to the top.
Hey you know what also gets overlooked quite often when discussing these things? -That it's not hard to make the playoffs when half your league is handicapped by salary constraints and you aren't. It makes your team look all the more pathetic when teams like TB, Texas, Cincy are having more success than you with garbage payrolls. -That the only time the Astros have sniffed playoff success was when their stars were on ball-shrinkers. -That due to aforementioned illegal actions, your stars don't miss huge chunks of seasons recovering from injury. Yeah, I think that often gets overlooked, lmao.
The current management hasn't been with either team for 13 years, so comparing that time line is pointless. The Rocket's have been much better than the Astros GM wise since Morey took over. The Astro's were better while Gerry Hunsicker was the Astro's GM and Dawson was the Rockets GM. There are no Carlos Lee type deals on the Rocket's roster any more. The Rockets have spent money to get more draft picks. In 2007 the Astros failed to sign most of their picks in one of the most unproductive drafts in franchise history: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5057770.html While the Rockets have spent extra money to get additional draft picks. In hindsight you can say they should have traded Yao earlier, but hindsight isn't exactly fair. If Yao had come back like Zydrunas Ilgauskas did for the Cavs and played with no injuries for half a decade or more then fans would kill the Rockets for having traded him. After all, we can see now how hard it is to get a star level player, especially a center. So taking the risk that the star we already have signed could come back healthy was a reasonable chance to take even if it back fired. Besides it's hard to imagine there were alot of other GM's who would have been looking to give up other super star level talents for Yao even before his latest injury this year. Unless you go back to prior to his injury against the Lakers in the playoffs. It's easy to say he should have been traded after that injury happened, but the overwhelming fan sentiment here prior to that injury was against trading him when he was still healthy and producing for the Rockets. For me it comes back to measuring where I want the Rocket's to be now, with where I realistically think any other GM in the league would have us now given the circumstances that Morey inherited. I see a lot of other GM's having us in much worse shape, but no clear situations where we are drastically better.
The Rockets in the past few years would be a hypothetical Astros a few years back if Berkman, Clemens, Pettite, Oswalt, etc. all suffered multiple season-ending injuries. The Rockets back in the Pippen-Francis era would the like the current Astros. I admit my memory of one poster on a message board wouldn't be the greatest. But were you bashing the management for their lack of foresight when they handed Yao his extension 5 years ago? Or when they decided to give T-Mac an extension 4 years ago?
I don't understand how people can be so dense... The Rockets will never sink to the lowly level of the Stro's, due to the fact that the Astros: - Had no farm (pervious GM did not realize the importance of having a good farm) - Had no young prospects (traded them all away for former borderline stars) - Had huge inflated contracts (think multiple T-Mac type contracts) Rockets have: - No huge contracts that are not EC's - Lots of young talents to develop - A ton of very manageable contracts
The Clippers before this year. They have their act together currently, but they have been the laughingstock of the league for a long time.
Never sink to the level of the lowly 'stros? What does that even mean?? Are you talking about where they stand right now? The Rockets, right now, are 26-31...in their conference, they rank as the 12th best team...there are only 3 teams below them. The Astros finished last season 76-86...coincidentally, that was the 12th best record in the NL...there were only 4 teams below them. Sink to the Astros level? Friend, the Rockets are right there, right now.
Carlos Lee is overpaid, but he isn't a dud. He has 110 homeruns and 410 RBIs in the last four seasons. He has more career homeruns and RBIs than Lance Berkman.
Is it a coincidence that the Astros' only playoff success in the franchise's entire history occured only because of roids?
1. MLB has had teams with lower payrolls competitive nearly every season now...nothing new there. The Red Sox missed the playoffs last year while the Giants and Rangers played for the title...while the Rays were in the playoffs yet again. 2. Not hard to make the playoffs in MLB? really? How in the world can you make that argument with a straight face relative to the NBA when, if the playoffs began today, the East would put 2 teams in with records under .500. Sorry, but that doesn't hold water...not even a little bit. 3. Last I checked, the Astros weren't the only team with players using steroids. 4. Last one is perplexing...would Yao's situation be improved by steroids?
you can keep saying this all you want...the Rockets, in a league where more teams make the playoffs than don't, have won exactly 2 PLAYOFF SERIES IN 13 SEASONS. whoopeeeeee... If you're comparing relative success over the last decade or so (a pretty large sample size) it's not close.
Well, considering other teams likely had a lot of roids, I wouldn't really hold that against them. What I would say, though, is that the Astros post-season successes came on the backs of 2 star pitchers WANTING to pitch for the Astros. And came as FAs despite getting less money than they could have elsewhere. I'm still waiting for that native Houstonian NBA star that's going to come sign with the Rockets for the MLE...
