Have School Children Give a Dollar for Palestininians in the Camps

you know its just a he said, she said, catch 22 situation that is not gonna have pace. No peace in middle east!

I am sorry to say WAR must run its coarse.

As far as the palestinians,...why should they have a country and all the perks that go with it if they never had it to begin with? I think these palestinians should just go away....the Bible says jesus was born in Jerusalem, (hence Jews) and it must be so on status qou, so just deal with it palestinian person, and realize you either live together in peace, go back to another middle-eastern country or be evil and do whatever means necessary regarding the inherently evil tactics of WAR......!!!

There won't be peace in the holy land until all of us are saved, so it is logically to underscore there will never be peace, because all of us won't be saved!!!! Don't you see it all makes sense!

Say a prayer for the damned.

 

I'm not talking about the adults who choose to fight us. I'm talking about the innocent children who have no choice but to live like this.

 

ROXRAN:

??

That is interesting logic to say the least.

(Just so you know, the Palestinians used to have a country. It was called Palestine. It's not there anymore. The Jews didn't used to have a country. They do now. It's called Israel. The interesting thing is, that you can point to both on a map at the same time - with only one finger...)

 

Jeff, believe it or not, I actually do feel sorry for them. They're not making these decisions, they're just damned to live with the consequences. But that still doesn't change anything. Until their parents start acting like adults who actually want to lead peaceful lives, there's not much we can do for them.

I also feel for all of the Israeli kids who get blown to pieces on a weekly basis by Palestinian suicide bombers. For some odd reason school buses appear to be a prime target. As soon as Israeli school buses stop getting blown up, Palestinian kids' parents might stop getting killed in gun battles with the IDF. It is really that simple.

 

Jeff, glynch, (even 'boy') et.al. -

For what it's worth, we're going to force the Israelis into offering another peace deal. It will be very similar to Barak's proposal, which is the best that the Palestinians could possibly hope for.

The Barak deal was a withdrawal to the 1967 borders (except for 5% of the territory, which would be a joint PNA/IDF security zone), the halting of all settlement projects, withdrawal of all military units from occupied territories, putting a leash on the Mossad (the "leash" is off right now - hence all the assassinations of Hamas leaders), and the formal creation of a Palestinian State. (I think there was one other stipulation, but memory fails) The only request that the Israelis turned down was that of the freeing of prisoners. Arafat asked that around 3,000 prisoners from high-security Israeli prisons be released - all of them known convicted terrorists. Not surprisingly, the Israelis refused to free these people. So Arafat refused the entire deal...

They will get another chance. We (the US) are going to basically force the Israelis into giving Arafat another chance, and we are going to lean on Arafat heavily to take it, not that he needs any leaning at this point.

If anyone breaks this attempt at peace, I estimate that it will be the Palestinian populace, since they are the ones who have been brainwashed into thinking that US influence is impotent. Arafat and the Israelis know better, but the average Palestinian - having been brainwashed by Fateh (Arafat) for the past 20 or so years - will not.

I sincerely do hope I am wrong.

 

hey treeman,

You seem to be up on the particulars of the treaty deal, do you know about the resolution of Jerusalem and Palestinian expats (from Israeli land)?

 

<i>Right of Return</i> was a sticking point in the Arafat-Barak negotiations and recent polls show that the Palestinians still place a high value on it. Don't see Israel agreeing to that concept.


Mango

 

Cohen:

Things I know about Jerusalem

- the Muslims worship a piece of rock that sits on Solomon's Temple.

- archeologically speaking, there is probably something important buried under that rock.

- the muslims will shoot anyone (or beat them to death) who goes to pray at the Wailing Wall and strays too far from there into Palestinian territory - hence the IDF...

- the Jews will not accept any peace that does not include at least a Hebrew presence in West Jerusalem. The Palestinians will accept nothing less than a total absence of Jews in Jerusalem...

- the patience of the Jews is not infinite.

- the patience of the Palestinians is a nonfactor. They no longer hold any important cards.

- East Jerusalem will be the capitol of an Arab Palestine. West Jerusalem will be the capitol of a Jewish Israel. That is the only end result. The US and the UN would be willing to make this happen, given the Palestinians would agree...

 

pointless

 

Lemme put it this way: the Israelis have/are poison.

If you defy them they will slowly eat you down. They will gobble you up and never once ask for an explanation.

Coffee, anyone?

If any anthrax shows up in Tel Aviv, expect nukes to be readied. Of course, anthrax will show up there, so you can expect that the Jews have all of their nukes targeted by this time.

100 SRBM-launched nukes, plus another 80 or so (rumored) air-dropped nukes - 180 nukes would do wonders for the Arabic world. More specifically, they would pretty much erase it.

I don't even want to contemplate the possibility that they have radiological weapons.

Getting the picture now?

 

Treeman,


I've read many of your posts and it seems to me that you seem to think that all Arabs/muslims are suicide bombers and that Isrealis are these innocent victims in this mess.

The ratio of Palestinians dead to Isrealis dead is staggering. I'm not sure of the numbers but in the last series of events it was several hundred palestinians dead and only about 20 jews were killed. Just because one side uses a suicide bombs, versus another with a country logo, invades with tanks and guns means one side is right.

The entire World, the UN, EVERYONE, except the US has tried to get Isreal to tone down their brutality and vicious attacks on Palestinians. Sharon himself calls the Arabs "Animals" and "Swine". Now i don't think Glynch's idea of a dollar is that much money seeing how we've given more money to Isreal, close to $30 billion if not more in just money to a country with a Jewish population the size of houston.
It comes out to the US giving every Jew in Isreal about $15,000 a year. That doesn't include weapons etc.

Treeman, do you know its a fact that weapons that were given to Isreal were sold to Iran AND Iraq during their war? There were allegations that Isreal even was selling the US given weaponry to China, but there is no hard proof of that.

Yeah, real Allies Isreal is..........

Now if any country recieved that kind of support of course they would be your best friend!!

And don't tell me we're trying to support democracy, because Isreal is an Apartheid, human-rights breaking state.

The Zionist/ Jewish lobby sure does some wonders to peoples opinions about who's perpetuating the violence.

 

FD Kahn,

It is the smaller issue in your points, but we need to keep our number straight. The US provides Israel with a total of $3.5B aid per year, another $2B in loan guarantees. There are 5.5 M Israelis, or $1,000 per Israeli per year (including the loan guarantees).

Your $15,000 per Israeli figure is how much each Israeli recieved in TOTAL, not annually, in the 48 years between 1949 and 1997.

Houston MSA has 4 M people.

 

Not exactly. The number of dead is 569 Palestinians to 166 Israelis according to the Washington Post. Certainly far from the ratio you claim.

Hamas is a known supporter of terrorism so I would question whether any action against them is really a break in cease fire.

 

Timing & Cohen,

I have always appreciated both of your posts and thank you for verifying figures, I was not exactly sure as I stated in my post, and I don't ever want to mislead with incorrect figures.

So essentially four times as many Palestinians are killed than Israelis.

My point was that a group such as Hamas are called terrorists while the Israeli GOVERNMENT is killing four times as many people. Now there are civilians getting killed as well on both sides, so who are we to say who is a "TERRORIST"

I believe they both are and should be held accountable for their actions on an equal scale.

Osama Bin Laden and his Al-Queda Network are killers and should be dealt with.

If Hamas commits acts, they should be dealt with.

The Isreali government should be responsible for its actions as well.


I simply ask for eqality in how we view a situation.
I am a muslim and I feel the Al-Queda's, Bin Laden's, Hamas of the world are unjust and are manipulating religion to further their own political, egotistical and or socio-economic causes. I think the muslim world has had to deal with a small fringe of extremism for quite some time and now the US is seeing these nutcases in action.

It just seriously shocks and saddens me how the Palestinians were forced into a "diaspora" and thrown off everything they had. And are now living in an apartheid state in which they must carry papers at all times, some that work in Israel (very few) must wear markings and are referred to as animals similar to pre WWII Germany. I know many Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim, who have felt the pain of losing their heritage and feeling a sense of loss that i'm sure only a Jew might be able to truly feel and understand.

Diaspora?
Pre WWII Germany?

It really saddens me that two of the greatest crimes against the Jews, is being done by the Jews/victims to another group; further fueling the seeds of pain and hatred.

Maybe just like a family, when a father is an alcoholic or beats his wife, the children have a higher propensity to do so.

 

The real distinction between a terrorist and a group that's not a terrorist organization is not whether or not civilians are killed...but, rather, who is TARGETING civilians. The Allied Forces killed civilians in defense of their freedoms...but I don't think we'd label them as terrorists. People who intentionally blow up school buses, office buildings, etc as oppossed to strategic military/economic targets are terrorists.

Having said that...I agree wholeheartedly that if biological weapons are used against Israel, you can anticipate a nuclear response. I would almost be shocked if they didn't respond that way. If you saw a smallpox breakout here with lots of casualties, I'm not convinced that you wouldn't see a nuclear response from the US. But I think it's far more likely that Israel does that.

Do I think Israel is the "good guy" here...no...I don't think there are any good guys...just some better than others. Given the fact that Yasser Arafat claimed that a Palestinian govt would likely be a combination of the old PLO and Hamas and some other groups, I'm much more likely to side with Israel in these disputes. I'll side with just about anyone in the world before I side with Hamas. I'd side with the old USSR before I'd side with Hamas. (no surprise to some of you who think USSR was a fantasy dream land come true!)

 

Muslims worship GOD not a stone.

I don't know maybe...but clearly Israel's repeated insistence that the land be escavated which will obviously make the structure fall apart isn't exactly 'tolerant'.

you really don't sound like a racist bigot with that type of talk. the fact is when the 2nd Caliph went to Jerusalem to liberate it he was asked to pray inside a Church yet he refused citing the reason that if he prayed there later generations might want to demolish the Church and make it a mosque. those are the true adherents of Islam. so yes those incidents have occured and its rather sad yet don't use crap like 'the muslims will...'.

I don't think the last part is true. Jews should be welcomed to do their thing. I think most Muslims would agree...however I wouldn't want Israeli soldiers sitting near the Dome of the Rock nor Masjid ul Aqsa to 'protect' the Israelis. Have UN do that.

Yet you expect the Palestinians living in UN camps for generations to be ok with it while their fathers are killed and mothers beat? and of course they are kind of hungry too since they can't work or go anywhere where they'd be able to work.

This would be fine as well...given that UN has huge presence to make sure those 3 month old babies aren't shot at by Israelis who are 'protecting and defending' the Israeli occupation.

 

so funny . cease what ? fire !! do you want from them to stop thier reisistance to the israeli occupation ? the jewish should find other land to establish thier state . this nation that established on the innocent people blood and thier skulls will not survive forever . it's terrible to call the palestininas (( terorists)) just beacuse they are looking for the freedom on thier own land . all this trouble appeared when the jewish occuppied palestine . so there will not be peace untill the jewish comeback to where they were .

 

Moreover . the jewish are welcome if they want to visit Jerusalem but not to destroy al-aqsa mosque and kill the people and kick them out of thier country .

that what the muslims would do when theu get back thier homeland .

 

Which would be where?...their "homeland", I mean...where is it?

 

F.D. Khan,

I always read your posts with interest since you appear to be very level-headed and thoughtful.

It is very sad what has happened to the Palestinian people. I am curious what took place from the '20's through the '40's, but I doubt that we will ever determine who started this melee. Both sides have done horrible things, and many on both side have become polarized (as some are here). These people who are polarized and filled with hate will never be a part of the solution.

A few years back I worked with a Palestinian. Their family was marched away from their ancestral home and they have never been allowed to return. It was easy to sympathize with their personal plight.

Sad thing was that I felt like World opinion sways strongly to the Palestinians when there are no terrorist attacks. In our interconnected world, this is no small matter, but I believe that there is too much hate to recognize this potential. There is so much hate and de-humanization on both sides, I believe that only very strong leaders and substantial financial support from the World community could resolve this now. I wish peace and prosperity for both peoples.