Funny how you just ignore or deny the many points I raised with blank assertion like "I just don't see it", then resort to attacking my position with crap like "Panda wants Yao to be the leader, not T-Mac". I just don't understand your fixation on your very common point that fouls affects Yao's game, which I acknowledged many times, yet you still pretend like I didn't with lines like "And even if we did make a *minor* change to Yao's offense, he'd still have to STAY ON THE FLOOR to DO THOSE THINGS." You are beating an old and dead bush, unaware of and refuse to acknowledge anything outside of that little circle. This is a discussion, not a contest of egos. You are taking things far too serious. Maybe you need to follow Yao and lossen up a bit.
If, all you want is for Yao to be more versatile in the offense. That's fine. I'm ok with that. Maybe next year. But that wont addresse the larger issue of fouls. That's my point. But at first you weren't saying that. You were trying to say that the reason that Yao's frustration was becaue he was unhappy/less effective with his role -- which he isn't good at (not like Shaq). Which isn't true if you look at the time that he is on the floor he is very effective. He's a do-it-all center; post-jumphooks, ft, dunks, rebounds, pass, jumpshot, defender...etc...we know he's not a post-only-Shaq player. As long as he's on the court he can show this versatility. But, not when he gets fouls.
It was just one game, folks. I am thinking about the reason that Yao always holds the ball low. It is little bit easier for him to keep balance to hold the ball low when somebody push him hard. If he hold the ball high, it is very difficult to keep his position or losing balance. That's the basic of physics. What Yao need to do is do not hold the ball still, keep move or swing, or hold it with his elbow stretched out to better protect the ball. He also should be ware of the other team's small player all the time.
Of course I want Yao to be versatile in the offense. I was one of the T-Mac trade supporter and posted on this bbs that although I am a Yao fan, I'm aware of the likelyhood of Yao being second fiddle to T-Mac, and I will do it for the sake of the Rockets. Your suspician on other's motive is uncalled for, and is getting old as one of your old tactic. Yao was effective without the foul problem but not overall dominant nor consistent when he was on the floor, and JVG was unhappy about his mechanical play a while ago. At first I was presenting my theory of Yao's frustration and inconsistency OTHER THAN the factor of foul problems, and I acknowleged the effect of his foul problems, yet you insisted to drag his foul problems into discussion and keep repeating it over and over and over and over. The only thing I can say right now is that I don't see this discussion is going anywhere. You sir, are doing a good job ruining a discussion.
That's the problem with theories. They look good on paper. But they don't take into account the real world. That's why I kept "drag his foul problems into discussion." It's all interrelated.
Its a fine line between fighting back and being easily goaded. I am afraid that Yao has no clue about eithe rone. and Hakeem grew up chucking spears and fighting off angry lions, so he was obviously a lot roe nasty
I disagree. Saying so would negate your right next time you develop a theory, and is announcing the death of all theories, very bold but unrealistic. All sucessful theories are based on taking the real world into account. They don't call it the general theory of relativity for no reason. However, I see now the danger of you derailing the thread into a discussion of theories, so I'd better stop here.
Come on Panda! Read. I was taking about YOUR theory. Not an absolute position. Maybe I should have said "narrow theories" have problems in the real world. Maybe you shouldn't leave out real world problems (like fouls) when creating a theory about Yao's frustration. That's why your theory wasn't successful.
Come on DavidS. You were talking about "theories", not "the theory", or "your theory", and now you are saying you are talking about only my theory. I really didn't know you have problems differentiating between singular and plural forms. So Yao's frustration when he was NOT in foul trouble isn't a real world problem? Haha. That's really funny.
I was speaking generally. When theories are created, they fail sometimes because they are narrow in scope. And I was making a general statement about it. But you should have know I was talking about yours because it's in this thread and it was a direct reply in quotes. "Singular and plural forms?" Next time I'll watch out for that because I know that you are a literalist. As far Yao's frustration. We would not be discussing this issue if Yao didn't have foul trouble the last game. This is a major factor in Yao's frustration. Yao's frustration from your theory of his "limited role" is way low on the scale of the cause of his greater frustration. If you want to isolate this small factor, by all means go ahead. But it's not going to make that much a difference without addressing the larger causes of his frustration (fouls!). To put it another way: 1) Yao NOT in foul trouble is real world, but it's NOT A PROBLEM... 2) Yao IN FOUL TROUBLE is real world, and IS A PROBLEM...
I knew you were talking about my theory, as well as theories in general, the problem is you over generalized theories, making them sound to be unrealistic in their nature. Listen, next time when you talk about things, try to be more specific and clear. Over generalizing things in arguments to defy a single instance is weak. Don't force the issue by directing the direction of discussion into "which problem is more important" through downplaying Yao's role on the team as a "small factor". This is so without common sense, to say the least.
Well, the difference between you and I is that YOU think that Yao is frustrated when he's not in foul trouble. Give me a break! What next? Fetch Yao's slippers? Bring him a hanky for his tears? You are babying him! I wont buy that crap! And I'm not downplaying Yao's role as "a small factor." The reason he has a smaller role is due to his fouls, not his performance when he's is playing without fouls. That's a whole other issue which IS less important. Yao's role will not increase as long as his fouls continute to be a problem. That's just the way it is. And I will force the issue of the direction of discussion into "which problem is more important." Because you blow -- "Yao is frustrated when he's not in foul trouble" -- out of proportion in order to support your theory just for the sake of trying to validate it.
I do think Yao is at times frustrated, but I didn't say he's always frustrated. Yao often gets visibly frustrated when he's not in foul trouble, such as missing his attempts, failing to box out, lack of stamina, and fumbling passes etc... but obviously to you, Yao can only get frustrated when he's in foul trouble. You pretty much said Yao's limited role is a small factor, and that's downplaying, as common sense says a player's role isn't a small factor. You are the one blowing things out of proportion to force the issue by making statements like "1) Yao NOT in foul trouble is real world, but it's NOT A PROBLEM..." simple as that.
Everyone gets frustrated when they miss shots. What do our guards do about it when they miss shots, fumble passes, or fail to box out? Pout about it? Cry? That's just playing the game. Things happen. Do you see us changing the role of Barry because he's *upset* that he misses shots? Give me a break! Jeff Van Gundy would tell Barry to shot better/practice if he came to him with a pouting story that he's "frustrated about not hitting shots." This has nothing to do with a role. That has to do with individual performance within that role. Increasing Yao's role will not change the occurrence of "missing his attempts, failing to box out, lack of stamina, and fumbling passes, etc..." Those will still occur until Yao performs better. It's up to him! Do you think that changing his role that he'll somehow not miss attemps? Not fail to boxout? Have more stamina? Not fumble passes? Do you? If not, then he'll still feel frustated about it. I say, Boo hoo! Work harder. Prove you can do the job. This is why I said is "frustration w/out fouls" is not the main issue. That's just him playing the game; or lack thereof. Fouls just make the whole situation worse! Much worse! That's called NOT blowing things out of proportion. I said, it was NOT a problem. Yao NOT in foul trouble is real world is NOT a problem = NOT blowing things out of proportion Yao NOT in foul trouble is real world, but frustrated because he's missing shots, not blocking out, or fumbling passes = BOO HOO! Work harder! Stop crying like a baby!
DavidS: While I generally agree with you, it's often beneficial to change a struggling player's role so as to put him in a comfort zone, then expand it once he begins to play well again? That said, I think this is a tempest and a teapot. 18 and 9. Not a superstar, but really damned good. More than a role player, less than a franchise player. Should you trade him? Sure, if you can get a real superstar. But probably not, since there aren't many really good players at his position. This all seems blindingly obvious to me, but maybe i'm just not a scout.
er, since Yao got us (1) tmac. (2) a motivated Mutombo. (3) just about everything else follows from that.. talking about trading him is ungreatful. Apart from anything else.
If anything was to change it would be to give him less responsibility. Not more, right? If that was to happen, then his role would move towards conventional "role player" and less "star role." I don't want that. I would rather just keep him a starting center, and let him have his opportunity. I hope you aren't saying that we should move Yao to the bench. Are you?
Nah, I think that if you really were worried about Yao's production (which I'm not, as I said in my original post), you'd probably put him in the high post more and let him shoot tons of 12-15 foot jump shots. Given his free throw %, he'd probably do quite well. Only post him up if they're not going to double team. I think it's pointless, since Yao's played well enough, except for his r****d-level fouls.
Yes, but it doesn't get to the point that Yao plays so tight even JVG has to tell him to loosen up. I was talking about one of the benefits of a better role, to prepare Yao better for games. The current role is too narrow and tight for Yao, a more relaxed Yao will do better in many areas. Yao can play a better game with a better role. You should know as a real Rockets fan, a living example is T-Mac. When T-Mac got the green light, he played better. You were blowing Yao's foul problem way way out of proportion. The games Yao has foul problem is in the minority of games he played. The role Yao has have an effect on EACH and EVERY game he plays. Also, you are trying to drive a meanless point in that we should only talk about Yao's foul problem and not other problems he has, such as his limited role. Remember, you agreed that Yao's limited role should be expanded.
