His skill level? You have got to be kidding me. Outside of being a true scorer, Lebron exceeds Kobe in every other facet of the game. That includes defense, one on one and help, steals and blocks, vision, assist, getting teammates the ball, even scoring in the paint and in transion Lebron is better. All Kobe has is a more consistent jumpshot and even that is beginning to fail him, thus his lack of playoff success the last couple of years. I dont question Kobes desire to win, as much as I hate the guy, he is one of the greatest competitors we have seen in the NBA since Michael. But his overall skill level is easily trumped by Lebron.
Well, what do you want me to say? Relative to the entire league, Kobe's shooting is probably above average. Relative to the best players in the league, Kobe's shooting is below average. Does that make you feel better?
Is he? In no particular order, I have these people (from the modern era) ahead of him: Jordan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Olajuwon, Duncan, KAJ, Moses Malone, and Lebron. And if you include players from the 60's, then you also have Wilt, Russell, and Oscar Robertson.
Says who? Russell (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) Wilt (the numbers) Cap (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) Dream (led team to same # of titles as Kobe, 1 MVP) Shaq (led team to more titles than Kobe) Moses (1 title, more MVPs than Kobe) Duncan (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) Jordan (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) Magic (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) Bird (led team to more titles than Kobe, more MVPs than Kobe) On top of that, all of the above players have had peak seasons and playoff performances that Kobe has never eclipsed. At his best, he has NEVER been as good as any of the above players at their best. Sorry if some of us remember the other great players that have accomplished more than #24.
if we're just talking individual stats, then it really is no contest. in terms of PER, kobe has 1 season ('05-'06 when he scored 35 ppg) that would be in the top 6 for lebron. he has 0 seasons that would be in the top 6 for WS/48. lebron scores almost as much and for a few years has been doing it at an efficiency well above kobe's, he rebounds better, he assists better, and he plays D better. from a strictly statistical perspective, kobe isn't really that close to lebron. and showing how far ahead jordan is ahead of kobe, he actually has slightly better stats than even lebron. jordan is basically lebron's stats (and then some) with clutch production that is as high as what people like to think kobe's is.
well, as much as i disagree with it, bill simmons actually put kobe in his top 10 in his book, even ahead of hakeem and shaq (which i think is ludicrous). and simmons pretty much hates kobe and has written a ton about his weaknesses. which i suppose makes it more crazy that he chose to ignore all that and focus on longevity and "resume" when the longevity isn't necessarily that crazy and the "resume" is largely a product of playing with shaq in shaq's prime. people act like kobe is 40 or something. hakeem and shaq were both in their early 30's when they won titles, with playoff runs more impressive than kobe's recent title runs (though kobe was still very good). and while he is still scoring a lot, he has clearly declined and spent most of this season just making up for it in volume. and i'm sure simmons isn't alone in putting kobe in his top 10. perhaps as time goes by and the legend fades and facts are looked at a little more closely, kobe will drop a little.
The Lakers have always done great when Kobe has been injured, which is probably why he doesn't like to sit out. Last year Bynum came into his own when he actually got touches with Kobe out. A couple years ago the Lakers went 5-1 when Kobe was out, all against good teams with the one loss being a 1 pointer against the Celtics. When Shaq was on the Lakers, they had a better record without Kobe than with him. The guy is a ball stopper, so it only makes sense that the team plays more fluidly when he sits for extended time.
I suspect there is a lot of media pandering to Laker fans, since they make up 1/2 of the NBA fanbase (seriously). No serious evaluator of NBA talent and accomplishments would put Kobe in the top-10.
Kobe won his rings with a supporting cast of Odom, Artest, and Ariza like you said. Lebron won his with a supporting cast of Wade and Bosh. Not to mention Allen will be joining them next year. He has a long way to go.
You forgot to mention Bynum and Gasol. Kinda important, since the Laker frontline could only be matched by 1 team in the league at that time. Every year Kobe won a title he was arguably on the most talented team in basketball.
Haven't you been following the thread? At this point, Lebron's legacy has surpassed Kobe's, but it's nowhere near Jordan's.
LOL no one is mentioning Jordan. All ur doing is misdirecting from the main topic, LBJ and kobe, no 1 else slappy....
Also, Glen Rice. His scoring decreased, but he had to play behind 2 other stars, and eventually play within the triangle. Rick Fox & Brian Shaw were good prior to joining the Lakers. AC Green & Ron Harper could contribute despite declining. My issue is when ESPN or the media emphatically calls Kobe a top 5-10 player, even Chris Broussard who I normally agree with. I didn't know Bill Simmons said that. Colin Cowherd called Kobe a top 2-3 player when taking out centers. Charles Barkley called Kobe a top 5 player ever. Doug Stewart once said that Kobe did everything Michael Jordan did. This isn't about Kobe but a lot of those analysts are either biased or say things for hype. I thought Wade deserved more MVP consideration in 2009, J.A. Adande kept contradicting his own MVP arguments. Aside from the players mentioned by others, I'd rank Duncan, Oscar and West ahead of Kobe too. Lebron needs a few more individual accomplishments and/or 1-2 more titles as the best player to surpass Kobe as an all-time player and move past the top 15.
