Respectful? Chucking the ball the Udonis Haslem before he's ready to catch it is respectful? Pure cop out my friend. Everybody has identified Lebron's weakness. Um, not really. Outside of Shaq & Kobe the 3peat Laker's team wasnt that stacked. The Laker's team with Gasol wasnt even the most talented team in the NBA those years. This years Heat team is collectively more talented than any championship team Kobe played on. Lebron definitley benefited. Simple. By driving to the hoop and scoring or getting to the free throw line. That's what HOF players do. Basketball 101 my friend Regarding first part, Lebron's a great player. I'm simply reminding you his legacy is nowhere near Kobe's right now. Regarding Kobe's frontcourt, so what? Collectivley they werent even the most talented team that year. Kobe carried that team. Miami could historically go down as the most stacked team EVER. While the Kobe/Gasol championship team aint even CLOSE to that. If you want to make this about how much help each player had then Lebron EASILY WINS. Lebron had more help and greatly benefited. Kudos Well "statistically" Lebron's numbers were all around better than Jordan's. Has his legacy surpassed MJ too? Not quite. I just look at Lebron as freak of nature. His body type mixed with speed and agility are something we've never seen. He hasnt had a significant injury or major surgeries yet, and wont for awhile. But he simply folds under pressure. The reason why we're not focusing on that is because he now has two HOF players (in they're prime by the way) to mask it better. The main reason he became a "super friend" was because he didnt want to be the "guy" anymore. You can average 40pts a game, but if you're scared to take the last shot then you're greatness has been tainted
Pippen wasnt the closer. Like I've stated, during the 3peat titles Kobe was still the closer on those teams. Without Kobe, Shaq doesnt win those rings and vice versa. Major contributor is an under statement when your winning games at the end of ball games. Kobe earned all 5 rings Meh, not fair. Shaq dominated but wasnt leading the team late in games when the game was on the line. KOBE WAS. No Kobe, no 3peat. Again, Kobe's just as responsible for the 3peat as Shaq was
LOOOOOOOOOOL Anyone who watched basketball in the early 2000s knows that the entire opposition was focused on stopping Shaq, which is why Kobe had it so easy. Take Shaq off those teams and they suck (this is not a guess, this is a fact based on their mediocre record when he was out). Take Kobe off and they were fine (again, FACT; in fact their record was better without Kobe than with him). Kobe is just a glorified VC/TMac/AI/Allen who has been on stacked teams 90% of his career.
Haslem is fully capable of hitting a wide open 15 footer, and that's a better shot than Lebron forcing something against multiple defenders in the paint. Um, yes really. In an era of weak bigs, the Lakers had Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. That was by far the best front court in the league. And with Ariza or Artest coming off the bench, that Lakers team was stacked. That's totally irrelevant. You have to look at the team's talent relative to the talent of the other teams in the league at the time. During the last 2 Lakers titles, which other team had comparable talent? Maybe Boston in 2010, but if you recall, the Laker's roster was so strong that the Lakers won game 7 despite Kobe shooting 6-24. So if anything, Boston might have been a distant second. On the other hand, wasn't the most talented team this year. That would be OKC. While you're in your "Basketball 101" class, you might want to brush up on the concept of "spacing". And I'd like to remind you that you haven't justified this opinion whereas I've given you my reasoning. Did I say that Lebron has surpassed Kobe b/c of only his superior statistics? Or did I also mention the MVP's? And btw, there's a big difference between 6 FMVP and 1or2 FMVP. Stupid, stupid, stupid. If he folded under pressure, then the Heat would've been eliminated in 6 games against Boston. Do you remember Lebron's game 6 performance against Boston? 45 pts on 19-26 shooting, 15 rebounds, and 5 assists. The rest of the Heat shot a combined 36% from the field. Not only did Lebron not fold under pressure, he put his team on his back and carried them to the win.
LMAO. Ridiculous Take Kobe off that Shaq team and you'd have team with absolutley no playmaker down the stretch. Shaq's inability to hit free throws made him a non factor late in games. If you're going to play this "Kobe needed Shaq" notion then it's only right you apply the same logic to Lebron and the his collection of HOF stars he teamed with. Fair is fair
Yes, fair is fair, but your logic is flawed. If you took Kobe off those championship Laker teams and replaced him with another all-star shooting guard, do they still win championships? Definitely. On the other hand, if you took this year's Heat team and replaced Lebron with another all-star SF, they don't get past the 2nd round.
Two of those champions were ref aided. Those teams had a lot of good role players. The issue with those teams was with Shaq and Kobe you couldn't have any other stars. That is why west shipped out ej and nve. They had 4 all stars one year and they didn't win anything.
The double team hadnt even came yet and he prematurely threw to hit to Haslem. You, me & the whole world shook our heads wondering what the hell he was thinking passing the ball. At this point you're just trying to save face. Lebron just chokes down the stretch of ball games.... Ariza? Artest? And are you speaking of the same Odom who made a damn fool of himself last year w/ Dallas. Stop it!! These guys are nowhere near allstar caliber guys lol. If you're comparing them to 3 future HOF players IN THEY'RE PRIME, then it's no contest. The superfriends have the most talent of any team in that last decade. Lebron didnt want to be the main guy in Cleveland and he got his wish and teamed up with two HOF players. Nothing wrong with that, but his legacy will always be tarnished to any real unbias sports fan. Bad game. I'm sure you'll find plenty of bad games MJ had as well. Still a great player who lead his team. OKC collectively more talented than Miami? Lebron/Wade/Bosh? KD/Westbrook/??? Terrible evaluation of talent I'd say the same thing to you. 3 superstars creates spacing and driving lanes because it's hard to double. It's simple bro. You have to slashers in LBJ & Wade attacking while Bosh knocks down mid range jumpers. Battier, Chalmers & Miller knock down spot up three's off penetration. Take away Bosh and Wade, defense collapses and those looks arent so open anymore. Kobe doesnt have that luxury I'm sorry, Lebron can have all the MVP's but the fact is he's still not the go-to player in the 4th quarter of games on his own team. Once he decided to partner up with two other superstars he put a huge asterick by his name. Just like critics told Kobe, "until you win a ring as the main guy" that asterick will never be taken away. Great perfomance. I saw that game. Legacy is nowhere near Kobe's though
We wont talk about the "ref aid" Lebron this year and every year he's been in the league. TRUST ME, it works both ways
Why was Haslem wide open? Where was his defender? Maybe on Lebron? Who said anything about all-star caliber? We're talking about stacked teams, not all-star teams. And whether you like it or not, Artest/Ariza/Odom all played crucial roles in those Lakers championships. Why bring up Jordan? The topic was about how stacked the Lakers squad was. And they were deep and talented enough that they were able to win the championship game despite their "best" player playing like garbage. You're an idiot. After all, only an idiot would forget about Harden and Ibaka. Look at the Lakers squad. 3 stars. No spacing. Do you know why? It's b/c they have no perimeter shooters. That allows defenders to cheat on help defense. That asterisk went away when the Heat won the title and Lebron won the FMVP. At this point, only Kobe fans think Lebron isn't a go-to player in the 4th quarter. He may not take the last shot, but he's their go-to player for the bulk of the period. Disagree. It's closer than you think. Even though Lebron is currently ahead of Kobe, Kobe would surpass Lebron if he could win his 2nd MVP.
It's so funny how salty the haters are. These are the same guys who said LeBron would never win. Then when it looked like he might win, it was because Wade was going to bail him out. Then when he put on an all time great performance in the playoffs and Finals, suddenly it's because the competition was weak. There's literally nothing LeBron can do that would impress these guys. It doesn't matter. In ten years, LeBron is going to go down as an all-time great and Kobe will be remembered like Pippen. And nothing the haters say to rationalize otherwise is going to change that. But if it helps them get through the day, more power to them!
LeBron rode coattail and he won a ring, big deal. Had Kobe joined KG and PP at 25, he'd have 10 rings by now. Kobe won the rings the old school way, he beat the rivalry, not joined the rivalry. There's a reason all legends went out and criticized LeBron on that move.
Lebron's stats were pretty amazing from these playoffs. Someone who rides coattail is someone like Juwan Howard who just sits on the bench. Also you might want to update your sig from Lebrons final stats from this year.
Dude stop making excuses. He should've taken the shot and passed it up because he didnt want to be criticized by the media (again). Not the 1st time probably wont be the last. Stop letting your affection for Lebron cloud you're judgement. Great player, mostly disappears in close games They were a solid team. Take away Kobe, borderline playoff team. Take away Lebron from Heat they're at the least ECF. That's "stacked". When you're best player LBJ can go down and you have two stars that can carry the team. Who's going to carry the Lakers? Pau Gasol? Andrew Bynum? Metta World Peace? You are seriously in denial at this point. The Heat 2012> Any Laker team w/ Kobe No denying this. What did Odom & Ariza do after leaving LA? I bring up Jordan as a rebuttal to your "statistically Lebron had a better season" stance against Kobe. Lebron had a all around better playoffs than MJ as well, but your nowhere near dumb enough to compare his legacy to MJ. Why is that? Is it because stats dont tell the whole story? Yep, that's it. KOBE'S legacy> any current player Lebron/SUPERSTAR Wade/SUPERSTAR Bosh/SUPERSTAR vs Durant/SUPERSTAR Westbrook/Allstar Harden/6th man/ No show in finals Ibaka/Shotblocker LMAO. This argument is laughable bro. 3 superstar shuts down any rebuttal you give me. Miami by far has the most talented team top to bottom. You're hatred for Kobe cant change this
he was certainly leading them in field goal attempts. but he wasn't exactly sparkling in the field goal percentage category. basketball-reference has playoff play-by-play data back to 2001 (kobe's best playoffs until the gasol years). in those 12 years the numbers are as follows: in the final 2 minutes with the game within 3 points kobe - 40.0% shaq/gasol - 54.3% limiting it to the 4 years they won the title kobe - 43.6% shaq/gasol - 50.0% in the final 5 minutes with the game within 5 points kobe - 38.2% shaq/gasol - 52.1% limiting it to the 4 years they won the title kobe - 40.9% shaq/gasol - 53.3% kobe of course took about twice the attempts in almost all those situations. if you are looking at game winners like the last 10 seconds to tie or take the lead, i think kobe is something like 3-13 or 3-14 over that time span. and zero of those came during any of the title years (2 were in game 4 against the suns in 2006, they lost the series; the other was against detroit in 2004 to force OT, they lost the series). so yes 40% shooting with no game-winners by kobe was really heroic stuff and obviously lifted the lakers to a bunch of titles.
I'll tell all the Lebron nut slurpers to call me when he gets his 6th ring, then we can talk about surpassing Kobe. I dislike Kobe as much as the next guy but seriously, Lebron shouldn't even be in the conversation. Right now, Lebron needs to surpass Oscar Robertson before he gets anywhere near Kobe. And so far Oscar and Lebron are pretty much the same. Both have only 1 ring, both were large dominant ball handling players.
-Kobe is NOT McHale, Horry, or any other role player. -MJ himself said Kobe is the only current player who is close to what Jordan was. -Yes, Kobe played with possibly the most dominating player ever. Lebron wouldnt have gotten FMVP on that 3-peat team. Nobody other than Shaq would have. -Lebron has only won 1 championship. 1 championship. Maybe if he wins a back2back or threepeats then goes back to Cleveland and wins another 2 on his own, then we can look at stats and really start to say that he has surpassed Kobe and start comparing him with MJ. But all of you LBJ c**ksuckers are really all prematurely ejaculating. Let's return to this topic in 5 years and for now you should just be content with knowing LBJ is the best player today and is on the best team today.
I understand why you think Lebron should've taken that shot instead of passing it to a wide open Haslem. You're a Kobe fan. You've been brainwashed into thinking difficult, low percentage "hero" shots are a hallmark of great players. I know the Heat are stacked. But so were those recent championship Laker teams. That was my point all along. The 2000-2002 Shaq-led Lakers would've swept the 2012 Heat in a 7 game series. Hmm... who cares? Totally irrelevant to what they did as Lakers. Obviously....which is why I brought up individual accolades. You have to factor in both stats and accolades. No offense, but do you have some sort of mental deficiency? You're selectively responding to pieces of my arguments when they're meant to be taken as a whole. It's almost as if you know you're arguing for a lost cause yet you want to save face so you're trying to win anything you can. At this point, Duncan and Lebron are ahead of Kobe. It's laughable that you'd consider Bosh to be a superstar. And stop underrating Harden. It just makes you look even more r****ded. There's been talk about him getting the max for his next contract. Obviously, he's more than just a 6th man/no show in the finals. And you think Ibaka is only a shotblocker? Pathetic. Yes, fair is fair. And to be fair, we should discount every ring Kobe has won while having the best frontcourt in the league. Hmm....looks like that's all of them. So if you discount all their titles, the argument is reduced to Lebron's 3 MVP's vs Kobe's 1. Seems pretty straightforward. You're right. Fair is fair. By itself, no it's not. Coupled with 3 MVP's, far superior stats, and a FMVP, it is. It's laughable how Kobe fans keep ignoring Lebron's MVP's and stats. They know that once these are factored in, Lebron overtakes Kobe. So they all focus entirely on team championships as a testament to individual greatness. Idiocy at its best.
