Has it finally happened? Have we found a replacement for Mobley?

These Mobley arguments are ridiculous.

There is a reason Francis is an all-star caliber player, and a reason why some people think Mobley should be moved to the bench.

Stupid, you pointed to Francis' less than spectacular AST/TO ratio...it must be contagious, because Cuttino carries a wonderful 1.2 AST/TO ratio. a full 1/2 assist lower than Francis'. Nice. Just what I want from my #3 option The year before we got Yao, with Francis out, Mobley managed to nearly attain exactly a 1:1 AST/TO ratio- 1.03, to be exact.

Mobley has played 3 positions? Cute. Sure, he played PG for a season, on a team with a HOF front line, and even a pseudo-PG in Pippen. Of course, we won't mention his 1.55 AST/TO ratio was worse than Francis' this past year. Of course, the 3rd position he played was in those 3 guard lineups. Obviously, since he's played 3 positions, it makes him better than Francis.

Fact is, Mobley's career best assist number is nearly 3.5 lower than Steve's career worst. Mobley's top rebound numbers are lower than Francis' worst.

On their careers, Francis has averaged nearly 4 more assists a game, and nearly 2.5 more rebounds. Never mind 2.5 more points. Francis fills it up across the board. Outside of scoring, Mobley's numbers are pedestrian.

BTW- I really do love your wonderful 2 point field goal percentage stat...except, since you like to rely on career percentages to regard Cat better than Francis, Francis' 46.2% 2P FG% trumps Cuttino's 45.9% 2P FG%.

The only reason that you trade Francis before Mobley is because Francis will get you a bigger return. Why? Because Francis is a better player. And it's not really all that close.

 

Yes. Bibby has better teammates.

But Francis's concept of milking whoever is currently hot is Rudy's idea. He would just dump it to whoever was feeling it or could not be stopped. Francis learned that. It's not a horrible idea. It works perfectly for the Blazers and Lakers. But for the Rockets....we need more of a team offense......that utilizes everybody's strengths and keeps everyone in motion and gets players in the best position to score. I HOPE!

 

This article is a perfect example of what I've been talking about. Publicly, Steve always says the right things. Unfortunately, he's not backing up his words with his on court performances. Open your eyes and stop believing everything you hear. Form your own opinion.

 

Mobley isn't the point guard. Shaq has a 1:1 AST:TO ratio. It is a stat you use for point guards, whose job it is to set people up. Pretty weak.

I never said it made him better than Francis. I said that it showed the sacrifices he has made for the team. He is neither a PG nor a SF, but has done both when asked.

I already said that Steve is a better passer and rebounder. If we were talking about who is the better point guard or power forward, I might even care.

I barely mentioned career numbers. I only talked about it as a tiebreaker, since their most current stats we the same. I am more concerned about what they are doing now. Its nice to know that Cat is getting better though, since his opponents like to say he has peaked. Or is it that Francis is getting worse? (In case you don't feel like checking, it has gotten worse for Steve 48, 47, 44, 45 outside of his worst year, where the migraines affected him badly, his shooting has gone down every year, along with his assists.)

I agree that you will get a bigger return trading Francis. I think that the reasons are more than you provide. Contract, marketability (the NBA is a business), position (pgs are harder to come by), the fact that he gets more exposure and was featured in the offense more recently will all contribute. Not to mention the pretty box scores. The kinds of things that will get fans excited and sell tickets, if not win more games.

 

in other words... you changed your mind

 

Umm, no. I still think that Cat should get more shots and that Francis should be traded or forced to play more like a point guard. I don't know quite what you are referring to 007.

 

Yeah, it's hard for people to see that because Francis is trying to mimic Mobley(system problem and Francis love of the ISO).

But Mobley as a 2 Guard has done his job. It's just that Francis tries to be like Mobley, when Mobley is on the court at the same time. It just makes matters worse.

If Francis had a system to work with, which would setup his teammates properly, then Mobley would be "in the flow of the game" rather than given the ball in ISO only situations. That goes for all players without the ball.

So there are a few issues going on here:

Francis has a bad system to work with (offensive philosophy); and Mobley ends up being the recipient of the system that he has been put in. He always receives the ball in ISO situations from Francis.

Mobley should keep doing shooting guard things. It's Francis's and the system's job to set Mobs up for the best possible shot.

Francis, given the right system, should be like Nash/Marbury. And that is to use their speed/quickness to setup an opportunity to either make the pass, or take the shot.

We've all heard it. "Take what the defense gives you."

Anyone notice that statement only applies to the "leaders" of the team.

Duncan, KG, Kobe, McGrady, Francis and Yao...etc...

This is true because it is those players that have the ball in their hands most of the time (and the athletic talent), but also have the responsibility to pass the ball for the better option.

 

gr8-1, what are you talking about?

I think I stated clearly that the system is the problem in addtion to Francis's love of the ISO.

But the system must be fixed first.

 

Exactly! This is what I was taking about in my other post above.

You hit the nail on the head when you said, "unrealized" talent. That is very, very true!!!

See my sig!

 

OH MY GOD!!! SOMEONE GETS IT!!!!!

THANK YOU SLA!

P.S. Milking whoever is "hot" should not be done at the expensive of the team concept. See, what Rudy has done is turn the "give the ball to your best player" as a philosophy, rather than creating a philosophy that is "team oriented" first, and the using "giving the ball to your best player" as a component (smaller part) of the former.

Giving the ball to who is "hot" or "the best player" should be done generally. But not exclusively.

Rudy has made an "offense" out of those philosophies, and that's why we are knows as the Rudy ISO team. He uses that mindset for every single play (or most of them).

That is bad. How can you create a team oriented system, if your main philosophy is "give the ball to your best/hot player" everytime?

It's setup to fail.

 

"But for the Rockets....we need more of a team offense......that utilizes everybody's strengths and keeps everyone in motion and gets players in the best position to score."

Wow, someone understands.

Great posts DavidS.

I've been avoiding this board because too many people want a player as a scapegoat when the system was the majority of the problem. Yes Steve and Cat have their problems, but most could be fixed with a coach that made them listen instead of always being best buddies.

 

isnt Francis supposed to be a two gaurd.

And Stupid if you belive superstar Mobley should be a higher option than scrub Francis just becasue of 2pt%, than let me ask you this. Who would you rather have take more shots...
Allen Iverson or Cuttino Mobley???
btw Stupid Iverson has a lower 2p% than Mobley

And please never say Cuttino mobley in the same lines of Kobe Bryant, Tracy Mcgrady...

 

The only way that Francis is "supposed" to be a two guard only is if he shows he CANT cut down his turnovers, and or run this team.

If he shows that he's not able to run this team effectively (even under Brown or Dunlevey), then he'll should move to the 2 spot.

But, if we bring in a coach that can show him the ropes, techniques and system that allows him to setup his teammates, then Francis's turnovers should go down. Because Francis will rely more on the "system" rather than just his athletic ability.

 

Here's the key. Francis, using a better system, coach, and his althetic ablity, should make Mobley "seem" like an All-Star.
And that goes for the rest of the team.

Do you get it?

Mobley is a very good 2 guard. Francis, using the system, should make Mobley "seem" great!

 

No, he supposed to be a point guard, he just isn't very good at it.

Mobley. Iverson taking a bunch of shots hasn't worked for them. When all they had was one of the best collections of defenders and rebounders around to clean up after him, they had their best season, but couldn't win. Iverson scores lots of points but just jacks up shots. Thats why they used to show that stat where he kept scoring over 40 but his team lost nearly every time. Cat makes more of the shots he takes, period. If they shoot the same number, Cat makes more. I would love to have been able to see what Mobley would do in the same system. They still wouldn't have won, but I bet Cat would put up similar or better numbers. Iverson has once had a fg% higher than Cat's worst season, and never had a higher 3pt% or ft%. He is one of the most overrated players in the game, IMO.

You may not want to believe it or whatever, but NIKE said it was nothing special to score 22 points as Cat did in 2001-2002. Those players that I listed where the guards that did it this year with the same or better FG%. That is why Cat is underrated. You can have all of the emotional replies that you want, but there are fact and their are opinions. Cat's numbers are facts, your superstar worship is opinion.

 

All of the guys you listed also put up fairly gawdy numbers in the assist and/or rebound departments in addition to scoring.

I pointed to the AST/TO ratio, and it is pertinent because Mobley is a guard. Shaq is a center. Big difference. Look at a guy like Brent Barry, who had a 2.7 AST/TO ratio from the SG slot. Big difference.

Scoring 22 points a game on a terrible team (and being what, the 5th worst team in the NBA can qualify as terrible) with mediocre numbers in assists and rebounds is nothing special. Look at Ricky Davis scoring 21 this past year, after never averaging more than 12. Davis even averaged 5.5 assists to boot- Mobley has never come close to that.

Look at Ron Mercer with the Bulls-he scored 20 a game, on 45% shooting on a bad team, had more assists, and a much better ast/to ratio than Mobley did when he scored 22. He gets put on a good team (Pacers), and all of sudden, he's scoring less than 8 a game. You could probably get Mercer for a song.

I've never disagreed with the statement that Francis is a poor point guard. I wish we would turn him into either a SG, or a true hybrid.

You claimed Mobley's season placed him in a degree of exclusivity, but again Francis surpasses him in that regard.

Care to list the players who averaged 20-6-6 this past year? I'll save you the trouble-Kevin Garnett and Steve Francis.

Forget "point guard" or "shooting guard". Francis is clearly the better "guard".

Apparently though, the only stat that matters for PGs is assists (and assist/TO ratio), the only stat that matters for SGs is scoring, and the only stat that matters for PFs is rebounding. We should trade Francis for Jason Williams, Mobley for Ricky Davis (or even better, Jerry Stackhouse), and do whatever we can to see if Miami will let us have Brian Grant.

 

In my view, all players should be "basketball players."

That means they should be good at what they do, but also know the "game" as well.

Example, even though Steve Kerr is a 3-point specialist, he still knows the importance about being a well rounded "basketball player."

Even though Malik Rose is a PF, he still knows the importance about being a well rounded "basketball player."

Mobley is a SG, but knows enough to do the other stuff well.

Francis is a SG in a PG role. And he has clearly struggled. He was put in a position in while the job is over his head.

Rudy "iso" system has made things even more difficult for Francis.