Has it finally happened? Have we found a replacement for Mobley?

Francis
2002-03
PPG 21.0
RPG 6.2
APG 6.2
SPG 1.74
BPG .51
FG% .435
FT% .800
3P% .354
MPG 41.0


Mobley
2002-03 Statistics
PPG 17.5
RPG 4.2
APG 2.8
SPG 1.30
BPG .49
FG% .434
FT% .858
3P% .352
MPG 41.7

IF your gonna have a dumb ass argument of who has a better shooting percentage, than get it straight.. even though its by a thousandths place of a difference Francis haas a better overall fg% than mobley. What do you mean by mobley has a better 2pt percentage!?!?! If you have a better fg% it probably means you also have a better 2pt % becasue im sure Francis takes more 2pointers thans 3s. So fg% is affected more by 2pters than 3s. So i dont know where in the hell you got that info on mobley shoots better on 2s...
btw i got my info form nba.com
so if you wanna argue this point argue it with the nba people incharge of the math in statistics...

 

I gave you the 2pt% numbers, you didn't even have to calculate it. It really isn't that hard though. The formula for 2pt% is :

(FGM-3ptM)/(FGA-3ptA)

If you are going to counter my "dumb ass argument", you might want to use actual facts instead of off base assumptions like, "If you have a better fg% it probably means you also have a better 2pt % becasue im sure Francis takes more 2pointers thans 3s."

 

It cracks me up that the best defense of Francis is some crying over a fractions of a percentage point.

 

if we get larry brown, see a repeat of what he did to AI.

 

And half of it isn't even accurate crying.

 

no actually its reversed. Stupid Monkey was arguing about the franctional point defense to Mobley. The Defense for Francis is that that 1 fractional % does not matter, and that obviously Francis smarter than mobley, averging 6.5 assits per game, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more talentedthan mobley, hes a 2 time starting starting all-star(dont give me that bull about making it to the all-star team doesnt matter), and Francis is more willing to sacrifice for the team...

 

It doesn't matter if you are an all-star game starter.

 

Excellent post DV. These Cuttino lovers are looking at this argument through a very small limited view as they usually do. Cuttino Mobley simply is not the complete players across the board that Francis is. Cuttino Mobley had the opportunity to basically be the premier option on offense season before last with the large number of injuries. That season, Mobley was given a HUGE role with 18-19 shots per game. Cuttino Mobley put up 22-4-3 on over 18 shots per game, which imo is not anywhere near superstar level. Steve Francis this season subverted much of his offensive game taking 16 shots a game and still put up 21-6-6.

The reason why Francis can score as much as Mobley on less shots is b/c he is very good at getting to the free throw line. When Mobley became the premier offensive option with 18-19 shots per game, he only went to the line an average of 4 times a game. That is a complete JOKE. Steve Francis who was not even in a true scoring role last season went to the line over 7 times a game. The true superstars are very good at drawing contact and getting to the line. I have no doubt in my mind that if Francis gets put into the scoring role next season, that he will go to the line 9-10 times a game. Mobley simply does not have the knack for drawing fouls that Francis does and the stats prove it.

 

I argued that a fraction of a percent doesn't matter (3pt %), but 2 percentage points is a clearer indicator (2pt %). I don't see how anyone would say Francis shows ANY basketball IQ skipping around like a little girl, dribbling off his foot while trying to cross his man over for the third time without making a move, etc. Francis also doesn't play any defense. He is the pg but has the worst pg A/TO ratio in the league, and is in NO WAY more willing to sacrifice for the team (Mobley has played 3 positions, started, played off the bench, took less money, focused on defense, given up more shots than anyone else for Yao, etc.)

 

Listening to the way a lot of ex-players, people who are close to the league talk, I'm not sure how much trade value Francis really has. Whether the people on this message board want to admit it or not, there are quite a few Francis/Mobley critics that are related in no way to the Rockets franchise. They simply see what many of us saw: a 4th year player still making rookie mistakes, the biggest of which is Francis' inabity to overcome his ego and recognize that with Yao Ming in the line-up, Francis and Mobley are no longer the only option. Say what you will about Francis' assists going up past the all-star break, but I was still watching in April the Rockets guards not passing the ball to Yao for long stretches of the game. I remember an article at the all-star break which featured a conversation between Oscar Robertson and Francis. Francis told Mr. Robertson that Yao isn't always aggressive and that Francis felt uncomfortable running the offense through Yao at times. Robertson's response was "It's your duty as point guard and team leader to make Yao aggressive and get him the ball." The article was concluded with Francis shaking his head as if he understood. Well, the second half of the season seemed like the same old selfish play from Francis to me. The vibes I get from Francis when he is interviewed about Yao is that at the very least, he doesn't believe in him and personally I believe he and his agent sees Yao as a threat to Francis' label as "The Franchise" for the Houston Rockets. Francis wants to be the man much like Kobe does in L.A. I'm hoping a coach like a Larry Brown can get Francis to see the value in working together with Yao. If not, then I say for all his athleticism and flash, Steve Francis is not a winner and will never lead the Rockets to the promised land.

 

Francis shot the same amount as Cat did. If you are fouled, it doesn't count as an official FGA. So if Steve shot 7 ft attempts per game, that is probably 3 more FGA. Cat's 4 FTA is a little less than 2 FGA. So Cat scores one more point on one more shot. Wow, how could I not see that Francis scoring 1 less point on one less shot makes him a superstar.

If anyone takes a limited view, it is Francis supporters, because the only look at HALF THE GAME. Cat plays defense.

 

All I can say after reading this is that you have a lot to learn about the game of basketball. If you can't look at Yao and see that he IS the future (and I'm not talking about the hype, I'm talking about what I saw with my own eyes and the fact that I can't think of one short shooting guard that has EVER lead his team to the promised land), then you don't know this game at all.

 

Actually at the start of the second half Steve cut back dramtically on his TO's. There was even a thread on the boards showing the actual stats. It was an amazing turnaround. There were times when there was definite backsliding. But the effort and intrest in changing were there.

Also while critics do point out Steve's weaknesses that doesn't mean they don't want Steve on their team. I think a lot of teams would love the chance to correct those problems.

 

Only time and a new coach will tell. I'm not saying Francis can't mature, but I'm a little surprised it is taking him this long to mature. Francis has all the athleticism and skill in the world. It's his mind that I'm worried about.

 

Stupid,

No superstar player gets to the line only 4 times a game. All the big time wing players, Kobe, Iverson, T-Mac etc all get to the line a LOT. Francis has that same quality and has not even maximized his potential in this area yet b/c he hasnt been put in a scoring role. The most you are going to get out of Mobley is 22-4-3 which he got in a season he got over EIGHTEEN shots per game. Do you realize that is nothing special with that many shot attempts?

Francis has already shown he can fill up the stat sheet in many different ways which Mobley simply cannot do. Cuttino Mobley is a scorer and not much else; Steve Francis is the complete offensive weapon. This has got to be one of the lamest arguments I have seen from the Mobley lovers. You claim that Mobley should get a bigger role and Francis less. Mobley ALREADY got a bigger role and yet proved he is nothing more than a decent but not great player.

 

if you people dont belive Francis freakin changed then please read this article, by By Ric Bucher from espn


Wednesday, March 26

Franchise relocates his place on the court

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Ric Bucher
ESPN The Magazine


The sigh says a lot, as sighs so often do.

"Everybody wants the ball," says Stevie Francis. (Sigh.) "So I'm just trying to keep everybody happy."

This is not merely Francis' explanation for why his shot attempts have steadily dwindled with each passing month of the season. It's also why if anyone has a gripe about taking a backseat to Mike Bibby for selection to the 2004 Olympic team, it's Francis. As in waaaayyyy ahead of Allen Iverson.


Steve Francis' points are down but his assists are up in the month of March.
If, that is, my understanding of why Bibby was picked ahead of Iverson is correct -- that Bibby is considered more of a fundamentally sound 'tweener guard who can play within a structured system as opposed to having the system structured around him. USA Basketball's recent struggles in international competition suggest that it mght be better served with more modest cohesive talent over unbridled superior talent.

The counter argument, of course, is that Iverson is Iverson, a whirling dervish of a threat that no non-NBA international player could possibly be ready to contain, because no non-NBA international player has seen anything like him.

Both arguments, however, can be made for Francis. He's as close to bridled superior talent as you can get. He remains the Rockets' scoring leader and most lethal make-something-out-of-nothing threat, but he also has assumed the tough role of seeing that Yao Ming, Cuttino Mobley, Glen Rice, Eddie Griffin, James Posey and Mo Taylor are not merely getting their share of touches, but that whoever is rolling in a particular game or quarter isn't being squeezed by the others. AI never developed that kind of magnanimity, and Sacramento's offense is naturally magnanimous, pre-empting Bibby's need to make such decisions.

"As much as I love Yao, if he's not being aggressive, I have to go to the other options," Francis said. "And there are times I have to say, 'Yo, this guy just hit four in a row. We need to keep giving it to him.' Then whatever I get, I'm cool with that. I'm told -- I don't know, but I've watched -- that that's the way you have to play to get to the playoffs."

If he isn't sure, it's because only three Rockets (Rice, Mobley, Kelvin Cato) know firsthand how a postseason-worthy team operates, and none had Stevie's job of leading the way. Posey doesn't have any experience, either, but he likes what he sees.

"Stevie is doing a good job," Posey said. "He's getting everybody involved. Everybody's getting touches. If we plan to have an extended season, that's the kind of game we have to play."

So why exactly is AI considered a dark-horse MVP candidate and Francis gets no mention? The Rockets' 37 wins in the far tougher Western Conference are easily comparable to the 76ers' 41 wins in the East. His crossover is nearly as lethal as AI's, his shooting percentages are far higher, he's a better rebounder and, by gambling less and sticking to the game plan more, a better defender. He gets to the line (7.9 free-throw attempts per game) nearly as often as AI (8.9) and far more than any other point guard, especially Bibby (3.3). Take away his refusal to be drafted by Vancouver -- a prescient stance, in hindsight -- and his citizenship scores are no lower than anybody already named to the Olympic squad.

Most important, as he has demonstrated in the Rockets' stretch run for a playoff spot, he is willing and able to conform his game to whatever is believed to be best for his team. That he's not totally convinced his reduced personal offense is the right way to go makes his reduction of 18½ shots per game in November to a flat 13 a night in March so impressive. Not to pick on AI, but it's impossible to imagine him winning games for the 76ers taking a baker's dozen shots a night.

“ I watched Allen (Iverson) play one night and he scored every time he touched the ball, and his teammates still weren't happy. I don't want that. I don't want guys not to go to dinner with me. ”
— Steve Francis

"I watched Allen play one night and he scored every time he touched the ball," Francis said, "and his teammates still weren't happy. I don't want that. I don't want guys not to go to dinner with me."

Hard to imagine AI saying that, either, though it sounds like the attitude you'd want from a guy asked to mesh halfway around the world in short-order with other stars accustomed to having the ball a lot.

As for the sigh? Well, anyone who has ignored what they do best to make those around them more efficient knows the answer. It's the pilot making coffee for the flight attendants. The CEO answering a few phones for the receptionist. The architect pounding a few nails for the foreman. Remember how awkward Jason Kidd sometimes looked when called upon to be a scorer? This is the reverse. It's not that Francis is opposed to doing selfless work; if the Rockets edge the Suns for the last playoff spot, his restraint in the face of Stephon Marbury's personal challenge could prove to be the difference. Steph, at one point taunting Francis that he was a "real all-star," hoisted 83 shots over four games to Francis' 47. The Rockets won the series and playoff tiebreaker 3-1.

The NBA, of course, did the Rockets a monstrous favor by rewarding Francis for his selflessness, naming him the Western Conference Player of the Week earlier this month even though his scoring average over the 3-0 run (19.7) was below his season mark (21.9). It's not that Francis has completely stopped being a scoring threat as much as he's reading the game and seeing what needs to be done on a night-by-night basis. Sometimes that means taking eight shots, as he did Monday against the Clippers. Sometimes it means taking over, as he did the night before to torch the Kings for 38, though only after his teammates shot a collective 22.5 percent in the first half, Stevie's 70 percent shooting alone keeping them within nine.

Changing roles requires ego-stowage, patience with teammates and tolerance for the knuckleheads who read a box score and complain that he either shot too much or not enough based strictly on numbers. Ask Kobe how hard it is to switch from scorer to set-up man and back again, something he admitted has thrown him for a loop of late.

"Maybe I'll put on 10 or 15 pounds over the summer and become a shooting guard," Francis said. "What do you think?"

I think that shouldn't be an option, because the summer weather in Puerto Rico, site of the pre-Olympic qualifying tournament, isn't conducive to putting on weight.

Ric Bucher covers the NBA for ESPN The Magazine. E-mail him at ric.bucher@espnmag.com. Also, send a question for possible use on ESPNEWS.

 

you guys are overestimating Steve's value to this team. Bucher Smucher, Francis has been talking that same talk for 4 yrs, the fact is his play on the court reeks of insecurity because one can see he plays with a great lack of trust in his teammates. Francis does not make his teammates better. If he cared about winning he would play defense at least 30% of the time.

 

farhan007, this is a perfect example of a bad offensive philosophy that Rudy has been using for the last 10 years. The statement above says that this is NOT Francis's problem. There's no reason that you should put your PG in that position. This is system problem, not a Francis problem.

Francis says that he wants to give the ball to players that are "hot" or "to keep them happy." To me, that says that he's just giving the ball to the players that are hot so they can go ISO.

See, that's a problem! Because the Rockets (and Francis) still see themselves as 5 individual players on the court! They don't understand the concept of TEAM. ONE UNIT.

This is system problem. A philosophy problem. Rudy's bad offensive philosophy has caused this to happen.

First of all, there has to be a new mind-set: TEAM FIRST.

Secondly, Francis is the leader and the players need to know that. They need to understand that in order to win they have to put their pride aside. Else, they will never win a championship!

If you were watching the Spurs/Mavs post-game report, TNT interviewed Manu Ginobli. Kenny Smith asked him if he was used to being a role player in the NBA vs a "star" in his home town (Argentina). He said that it's hard to hold back on his skills, but he knows that Tim Duncan is the leader and he has to give the ball to him most of the time. He has put his pride in his pocket for the better for the team.

The rockets supporting cast need to understand that.

Everybody on the Rockets think that TEAM play is equal to just gettting touches and going ISO. That is WRONG!!!!!!

Currently, the Rockets are FIVE players, playing as individuals.

They should be FIVE players plaing as a single UNIT.

 

Mobley was the only option on that team. Francis was in and out of the lineup. Moochie was starting a significant number of games. We were getting nothing from the small forward spot. Our power forward situation was in turmoil. Cato was our starting center. Despite all of that, he shot his career high in FG%, career high in 3pt%, and scored 22 ppg. The guards tha matched his numbers this year: Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Ray Allen, Allen Houston, and Stephon Marbury. Man those guys sure do suck. Notables not on this list: Allen Iverson, Paul Pierce, Jalen Rose, Steve Francis, Gary Payton, Michael Jordan, etc. Your absolutely right, nothing special at all.

Because he gets 2 more assists he has shown himself to be the complete offensive weapon compared to the "decent" Mobley? That is the lame argument. If Mobley is featured in the offense more than 3/4 of one season, he will probably get more calls too. Getting to the line is part being aggressive, which Mobes has shown, and part reputation, which he has not gotten. Interestingly, in 2000-2001, Mobley attempted 474 free throws. Francis has beaten that total one time. It's easy to say an argument is lame, or that someone is a role player, but the numbers show that Mobley shoots as well or better than Francis, he is undoubtedly a better defender, Francis is a better passer and rebounder. Also, Antoine Walker, who many consider a superstar, averaged 3.6 FTA per game, Michael Finley 3.3, Latrell Sprewell 2.9, Rasheed Wallace 3.7. Four FTA per game is not a dismal number.

 

It has finally happened. We have found a replacement for Mobley. It will hopefully be Eric Snow, Alvin Williams, or Aaron McKie.