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Has Harden ever had a Jimmy Butler performance?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SidDaKid, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. csc177

    csc177 Member

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    Lakers are just tough to beat 4 times
    CP is more than a good player. Stop it.
     
  2. SoupTent3

    SoupTent3 Member

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    Harden was used very effectively at OKC, coming off the bench as the sixth man and contributing instant offense. This is his game. He will not carry a franchise to a championship. It's just not in his DNA. The Rockets organization needs to face that fact. He' grown as a player, don't get me wrong. But he's not going to bring a championship here to Houston. I'm sorry. It's just not going to happen and he's in his prime now. The same scenario goes for Westbrook as well. Blow this thing up. It's not going to work in it's present form.
     
  3. Mr. Dominant

    Mr. Dominant Contributing Member

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    I agree but only to a certain extent.

    What I've analyzed over the past few years and after Harden left OKC, is that he wanted to BE the GUY. Or else he would have just stayed with Durant and Westbrook.

    Now flash forward what, 7-8 years later as a Rocket, Harden is still here, in Houston. This has led me to believe 3 things:
    1. Harden loves having the keys to a franchise that he basically turned around and since he's been here for so long, he has adjusted and will never leave. Will most likely retire a Houston Rocket too.
    2. Harden cares about the grind, and the game more than actually winning a championship. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he wants a championship, but if Harden did, he would have changed his ways to learn how to play off the ball, set cuts, and use all parts of his offensive package instead of just shooting 3's now and or just looking around standing most of the time if he doesn't have the ball in his hands. This tells me he has a case of passive aggressive behavior... meaning aggressive in the regular season, but passive in the post season for whatever reasons.
    3. I firmly believe Harden hasn't had talent next to him like Lebron has had in his career, and I think that is one of the biggest reasons why Harden hasn't gotten to the finals with the Rockets.

    Ultimately, if Harden doesn't change the way he plays and goes back to the multi-offensive player he was (driving, layups, step back 2's, step back 3s, cutting, and just using everything) or if he doesn't get a player like Lebron, or AD, or Butler, etc. Harden will forever be known as a great scorer with no titles.
     
  4. verysimplejason

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    At least he got to the finals as the prime dog. Shane got his as a role player. Let's not even talk about Harden. He's not been there.
     
  5. verysimplejason

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    Wants/Loves is different from being one. Harden can't be the main man, though he will be an excellent Pippen to a Jordan. He'll never be a Hakeem. Just look at the 94-95 Rockets. At best, he'll be a Clyde to a Hakeem.
     
  6. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    People keep talking about him "standing around" yet it's been explained already that that's part by design to keep his defender pinned. The entire point of him doing that is to provide CP3 / WB with a 4v4 matchup which SHOULD be in our favor. This was a strategy that worked great when CP3 / WB were healthy and able to take advantage of that matchup. If Harden's defender sags off, ball goes back to Harden for a 3pt shot with space.
     
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  7. Ramo$e

    Ramo$e Member

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    This has got to be the silliest comment. How would you know that? Butler is not even the top dog on his team. Someone already disputed this on another thread. They are doing it as a team. When we make it. It will be as a team. Does it matter who the dog is? Harden's production won't change. Harden isn't breaking down. His game is so smooth it's not predicated on being super athletic so there is less chance of injury. Only a someone who does not know basketball would want this. Westbrook on the other hand he can go if there is better deal to be had. Maybe the thinking was Westbrook would be what you narrative types call a "dog". To lose to the eventual Champs on a crazy scheduled season, also with the Westbrook injury, Bad coaching, being the first year with Westbrook is pretty premature.
     
  8. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

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    at this stage of his career, he is just a good player. great players are superstars, he is not a superstar anymore
     
  9. Asian Sensation

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    I don’t care who coaches this team next season or whatever player(s) we acquire. For as long as Harden is on this team and he’s the main option it’s gonna be new year same old ****.

    There’s not a single coach good enough to guide a team led by Harden as the main option. There’s no Superstar that’s going to join this team that’s good enough. LeBron James, KD, AD, Kawhi and Giannis ain’t walkin thru that door.

    Harden will average his 35 points per game in the regular season and finish as a top 5 MVP candidate. His fanbois will gloat about how awesome he is, how he’s the best offensive player ever and how his ‘haters’ don’t know anything basketball and have it all wrong. The same homers will be overly confident heading into the playoffs and talk about how this is finally the year and have no issues with the rest of the team or coaching.

    When the playoffs come around he’ll struggle to make an impact when it matters. He’ll have the most quiet 30 point games mixed in with his terrible shooting games. There will be posters pondering if he’s injured or conveniently settle and blame it on him just being tired when he looks disinterested and has an off game. A new scrub along the lines of Jonathon Simmons and Luguentz Dort will emerge, make a name off of Harden and become a major story line.

    We’ll get eliminated in the first or second round and all the Harden apologists will blame the teammates not being good enough, how the coaching sucks, blame Morey, cheap ass Tilman and how the refs had it in for us. All summer long the same Harden fans will talk about how bad we’ll suck if we trade Harden and how his game is built forever because he doesn’t rely on athleticism.

    The guy is built for the regular season. Not once has he ever played at or greater in the post season in comparison to the regular season. Every year for the last 5 years I’m here bitching about Harden’s shortcomings. I hate it just as much as the Harden apologists hate reading this post.
     
    LosPollosHermanos likes this.
  10. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    how relieved were you when cp3 tore his hammy in game 5? scale of 1 to 10.
     
  11. Asian Sensation

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    -5000

    Here’s CP3 having a Jimmy Butler performance and eliminating the Jazz while King iso rides the bench again in crucial moments after a horrendous game. Thank good for Paul... saved the series from likely going 7 by taking care of business.

     
  12. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    So Adabayo and Dragic had nothing to do with this?

    Did you miss the Adabayo block?

    Never knew a player can have multiple games under 20 points and be the sole reason a team gets into the finals.

    Its amazing the stupidity in the Garm sometimes.
     
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  13. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    So Harden did not advance to the WCF twice in the last 8 years?

    Outside of San Antonio he has never lost to a team that has lesser personnel, your Harden takes are just ignorant.
     
  14. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    James Butler's "greatness" & "heart" getting him the same place as James: going home in 5.

    Code:
    vs Lakers         G    GS     MP     FG     FGA     FG%     3P     3PA      3P%    FT    FTA    FT%    ORB    DRB    TRB    AST    STL    BLK    TOV     PF     PTS      GmSc
    Damian Lillard    4     4    35.6    6.5    16.0    .406    3.3    8.3    .394    8.0    8.3    .970    0.3    3.3    3.5    4.3    0.5    0.3    3.5    1.0    24.3    16.5
    C.J. McCollum     5     5    39.2    8.8    19.8    .444    2.6    7.0    .371    3.0    4.4    .682    1.0    4.8    5.8    3.2    1.2    0.4    3.0    2.0    23.2    14.4
    James Harden      5     5    38.6    8.6    17.2    .500    2.8    7.4    .378    9.4    11.2   .839    1.4    3.2    4.6    7.2    1.4    1.0    4.6    2.8    29.4    23.4
    Russ Westbrook    5     5    35.4    7.8    18.4    .424    1.4    5.4    .259    2.8    5.2    .538    1.4    6.0    7.4    5.0    2.0    0.4    4.2    2.8    19.8    12.3
    Nikola Jokic      5     5    33.4    8.2    15.4    .532    1.0    2.8    .357    4.4    5.2    .846    2.6    4.6    7.2    5.0    2.0    0.4    2.6    4.6    21.8    18.5
    Jamal Murray      5     5    41.0    8.8    17.0    .518    1.8    5.8    .310    5.6    6.4    .875    1.0    3.4    4.4    7.4    1.0    0.6    4.2    2.0    25.0    19.6
    Jimmy Butler      4     4    41.6    9.3    16.8    .552    0.5    2.0    .250    8.5    9.5    .895    1.8    6.0    7.8    10.0   2.0    0.8    3.3    0.8    27.5    28.1
     
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  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Except we can literally see with the eye test and statisical analysis that he drops off efficiency and production the most relative to other superstars from the regular season to the post season. We had a small glimpse of what it would be like when Harden had the superior personal and he ended up with one of the worst playoff games in NBA history with breaking turnover records. There is no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt here other than homerism.
     
  16. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    Nobody can literally see the eye test, the eye test will always be subjective.

    We had one series with Harden having the superior personel and he has never lost to a team like that since.

    It's amazing how a hater like you keeps that one series as a checkmate and forget everything else that has happened since.

    I don't even think you hate Harden that much you just like to argue and be a contrarian.

    What benefit of the doubt is anybody giving him, why do you continue to inject stuff into a discussion that has nothing to do with the topic.

    Does Butler deserve the benefit of the doubt?
     
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  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I have higher standards for Harden than Jimmy Butler. So does this message board and I'm making my arguments based on those standards.

    Harden drops off in scoring efficiency and production more so than any other modern superstar. He also falls apart in the 4th mainly due to his lack of versitility to his game.
     
  18. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    largely the same dropoff as guys like steph and kd. a little more than giannis but also never lost to a way worse team like giannis.

    which team was this he had way better personnel than?
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The Spurs when Kawhi was out and LaMarcus Aldridge was their best player. Harden's performance speaks for itself.
     
  20. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    So once again you injected something into a thread that was not the actual topic, just to **** on Harden again.

    Most superstars have a drop in scoring efficiency and production just look at Curry or the current MVP.
     
    D-rock likes this.

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