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Has Harden ever had a Jimmy Butler performance?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SidDaKid, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    Not to mention off the court antics and personality issues have been major issues. Even more so than with Harden who really only has issues with players when it comes to how the play with him… which is often a bigger issue but still.

    The fact is if you took this year out of the equation Harden is the player you take a chance on 9 times out of 10 if you are looking for a 1A to build around but the past 12 months have been incredibly devastating to Hardens legacy and Butler has had a nice post season on an exceptionally disciplined team.

    IMO both guys are far from perfect players and Butler has never been and never will be a player who you can soley build around to win a title while Harden up till this year regardless of playoff stinkers was so dominant in the regular season that every GM in the league would still knowing that make the decision that if you had to pick one of the two Harden was still the better gamble to give you the best odds at a title.

    Next year though… yeah every GM in the league would now rather have Butler going forward because Harden looks damn near done with the game… but who knows what happens with a few simple lifestyle changes and some maturing.
     
  2. Magicsaint

    Magicsaint Member

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    Agree. Comparatively, Green at least moves around without the ball, unlike Harden. He does not need the ball to be effective. A great PG will elevate Greens game to a new level.

    Recent press conference post-elimination against the Heat when Harden was asked why did he attempt only 2 shots in the 2nd half; his answer was his teammates did not pass him the ball! When you see the game video, without the ball he mostly just stood around doing nothing. Harden is simply in his own universe. Either the entire organization caters to his needs or simply blames others when things go wrong, but he himself will never change.
     
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  3. Magicsaint

    Magicsaint Member

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    Harden as a "superstar" most likely also made calls on player acquisition. It is hard to believe otherwise. Overemphasis on threes, lack of movement, and over-reliance on Harden were designed by Harden's style of play for him to succeed and be effective. Off-ball Harden is a spectator. But when opponents recognized how to stop Harden, there was simply no adjustment by Harden who controlled the ball nor MDA. Harden is equally to be blamed for the Rockets late playoffs voes.
     
  4. Asian Sensation

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    Lol @ the idea of James Harden changing his lifestyle and maturing at age 33 and year 14 in the league.

    This is the same guy that held us up multiple times by breaking restrictions during Covid lockdowns because his partying was more obviously more important. The same guy that was on the first flight out to Paris with his rapper buddy after getting eliminated. The same guy that goes out to party after getting blown out at home in his most important regular season game with his mom sitting court side. But I’m sure he’ll change cause his delusional fan club members really wishes/hope he would.

    GM’s want guys that play up to their regular season standards or better yet players that elevate their games to another level in the post season. Harden never even plays up to his regular season standards. Instead he always disappoints/underachieves in the playoffs.

    You can not win a Championship with Harden in your starting lineup as your option 1, 2 or even 3. We saw that with Brooklyn and we saw that Philly snd we saw it way too long here.

    His game is too flawed. He’s not a PG. At least not a winning one. Winning PG’s don’t average 4+ turnovers per game with a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio. Winning PG’s don’t dribble the shot clock down to 4 seconds or less before shooting a terrible low percentage shot or dump it to your teammate leaving them with an equally bad contested shot right before the buzzer. He does this at least 2 to 3 times bare minimum every game. He’s not a SG cause he can’t/refuses to move without the ball. Contrary to popular belief around here he’s not a high IQ player. High IQ players don’t jack up 7+ threes per game when they shoot well below the league average.

    The best guy Jimmy Butler ever played with was Embiid for 55 games and it wasn’t MVP candidate MVP. What do the rest of his teammates look like over the years? Let’s take a look. A 35 year old Wade and Pau Gasol, Derrick Rose coming back from career altering knee injury, 22 year old KAT and Wiggins. Even his team this year it’s nothing special. The Heat are special because of him.

    Now compare that to all the Superstars Harden got to play with over his career.

    Butler >>>>>>>>>>>>> Harden
     
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  5. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    some of this is valid.

    imo Harden would have won a ring here in Houston, he just was going against the best team in basketball that no team could beat in the warriors during his peek years. And he almost did it the first year cp3 I was here.

    he’s a better player than jimmy butler by far on pure talent and individual accolades. And his team have consistently won 50+ games and made atleast the 2nd round every year.

    can’t say the same for butler.

    but and I hate to say it. I think Harden is really just not the same player anymore. I think all the years of playing thru injury never missing games and logging so many minutes has hurt him.

    he can still get u 20 and 10 with 6-7 rebounds and shoot 43/35/80 splits but he’s not the mvp player he was 5 years ago he’s not even a 2nd or 3rd team all nba anymore. He reminds of of Dwayne wade the last few years of his career just getting by on name only but his game had taken a hit.

    he’s still really good he’s just not great anymore.

    and I wouldn’t give him 250 million dollar max deal.

    If im Philly I’m doing 3 year 100 million at most.
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Never Trump
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    Harden had a great career, but the league changed the rules and his advantages dried up.

    We got rid of him at just the right time.....Morey has hitched his wagon to him, that will probably be his downfall - Morey is stubborn when it comes to the truth about Harden.

    DD
     
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  7. Magicsaint

    Magicsaint Member

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    Not keeping himself in shape after a certain age has also hurt him. Regular season Harden is very different than playoffs Harden. When those barrage of step-back 3s arent falling, he simply does not pivot. That 20 ppg regular season stats are pretty much useless when he decides to take 2 shots in 2nd half of the most important game of the entire year and this is nothing new from Harden as seen in the past. He is in a complete decline and not even worth 3-years 100 mil.
     
  8. mfastx

    mfastx Member

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    I don't get why people think this. His free throw rate this year is just as high if not higher than it was most of his years with Houston. It's his lack of explosiveness that's the issue.
     
  9. VickMackey

    VickMackey Member

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    Anybody checked on this dude recently ?
     
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  10. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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    The OG Harden nuthugger... He is like the Wilt of Harden nuthuggers....
     
  11. Landry's Tooth

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    Some perspective is needed here...

    James Harden in the playoffs has shot a higher efg% than Jimmy Butler in the playoffs. This ignores free throws...

    No doubt Butler is a better defensive player but that difference isn't much if you have the dedicated Harden that shows up every other year.... Harden is an elite post defender...

    I don't discount that Harden is a mental midget much of the time but let's not pretend Butler is so much more dominant...
     
  12. Landry's Tooth

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    I would say there's an element where Harden could be embarrassed by his performance and dedicate himself in the offseason. When the hangers on move onto other stars he'll realize he needs to put in the work for the party to keep going...

    He's done this in the past.... not saying likely but it shouldn't be shocking... especially in a contract year...
     
  13. Asian Sensation

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    What the heck is a dedicated Harden that shows up every other year? What does that even mean? Anyways

    Since this is a Jimmy and James thread why wouldn’t you just directly compare their stats head to head in their series matchup? Is it cause Butler was in fact so much more dominant?

    Harden:
    40% FG, 50% eFG%, 58% TS
    109 points
    38 rebounds
    42 assists
    3 steal
    1 block
    29 turnovers

    Butler:
    51% FG, 55% eFG, 60% TS
    165 points
    45 rebounds
    33 assists
    10 steals
    4 blocks
    12 turnovers

    There’s no reason to try and spin or sugar coat Harden’s performance….. unless you’re a Harden apologist or hardcore fanboi. He was beyond terrible and actually worse than his stats suggest. He never showed up when it mattered except for the second half of 1 game out of 6 games. He had minimal impact on the game and disappeared in the second half of all the games except for game 4. Butler absolutely dominated him and the 76ers.
     
  14. Landry's Tooth

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    Series matchup?

    What are you using?

    How does it avoid the issue of small sample size?

    It's ok to hate Harden but no need to make irrational arguments...
     
  15. Asian Sensation

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    What are you even talking about? Those are their stats from….. you know…. the series they just played.
     
  16. Landry's Tooth

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    So you're saying just look at one week of basketball and not their careers?

    Seems weak...

    As i said, Harden has been more efficient in the playoffs than Butler in their careers. So by saying Butler was better that week you're also saying he was even worse all those other playoff games...

    I'm not going to take you seriously from now on since you're not a serious person.
     
  17. Asian Sensation

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    Way to move goal posts to protect your loser hero. Why would you not use the most recent stats especially when they went head to head? It doesn’t matter what Harden did 3,4,5 + years ago. Maybe to a nut hugger like yourself who can’t let the past go it matters a whole lot but try using some logic for once. Going by your logic Harden should get the super max cause he only played bad for “1 week” right? :rolleyes:
     
  18. glimmertwins

    glimmertwins Member

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    Are we asking if he has ever smashed Rachel Nichols?
     
  19. Landry's Tooth

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    Weird, why a series, why not a game?

    Why that specific sample size?

    Honestly, I'd mock you more but you're just not fun to mock... just sad..

    Blocked you go... i suspect i was the last one left to talk to you... maybe you try a new website?
     
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  20. ParaSolid

    ParaSolid Member

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    Watching harden shrivel up and fade away is sort of depressing. The guy carried the rockets for a decade and I got used to seeing him dominate. Even in the playoffs, he would destroy teams in the first few games, and then play okay (25 - 30 ppg next few).

    seeing him now is just so jarring. I have to think that that hamstring issue just really messed him up because in Brooklyn before the injuries he was still that guy
     

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