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Has Harden ever had a Jimmy Butler performance?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SidDaKid, Oct 5, 2020.

  1. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Having a below 1 assist/to ratio is atrocious dude. He's our primary playmaker.
     
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  2. aliadiere25

    aliadiere25 Member

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    And he was getting double-teamed at half court.... not surprising he's not getting many assists or having a few turnovers from it. What did our other primary playmaker do? You know.... the one who wasn't getting double-teamed at half-court. Put it this way..... if the roles were reversed and Westbrook was getting double-teamed at half-court like Harden was, Harden would kill the other teams and scored 50 plus points every game. He would average over 10 assists every game.

    His teammates have to do more from those 4v3 situations, especially from someone like Westbrook, who should easily take advantage of that situation. The guy used to average a triple-double every game.
     
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  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    How many ****ing times does this have to be said. Harden MAKES IT EASY FOR NBA DEFENSES TO DOUBLE HIM. His slow pace lackadaisical walks up court, barely moving his feet off ball make him an easy target to double and trap.
     
  4. aliadiere25

    aliadiere25 Member

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    It doesn't matter if he makes it easy for them. He puts his other teammates in a 4v3 situation. He does the hard work of putting them in an easy situation. Why can't his teammates take advantage of Harden having 2 people on him at half-court? The real reason is Westbrook can't shoot and his other teammates are useless on the ball. The same can't be said for the other NBA teams.
     
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  5. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    No he puts them in 4 vs 4 situations because of two reasons.

    1. He plays right into WHERE the defense doubles him. He walks right into them or standard around for 15 seconds with the ball at the top of the three point line. This allows the defense to plan methodically how they will trap Harden, who to play off of and where. What happens is Harden gets trapped at the top of the three point line drifting mostly to his right as that's where defenses try to force him, play off of the worst Rocket shooter letting him freely operate around the free throw line knowing that this team doesn't like taking long twos which means that the player will pass it out to another player who is in position for a 3 pt shot.

    2. While that's happening Harden just stands around which makes it really easy for defenses to recover back to the player they played off of during that time his teammate has to pass it out to another shooter.

    Harden's doubles mostly create 4 on 4s with Harden just standing near the half court.
     
    #305 fchowd0311, Oct 10, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
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  6. MettaWorldPete

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    You acknowledge Harden is a generally better player than Butler, so it seems reasonable to conclude that’s why Butler isn’t getting doubled. Not because Harden is easy to double and Butler impossible. Yes, Miami’s offense makes that calculus different, but LA practically doesn’t bother defending him until he’s inside the 3 point line.

    In any event I think like yall have said we’re all looking forward to seeing what the next coach does, and it will tell us a lot about whether this was MDA’s scheme or Harden’s. The relatively simple and extreme nature of the scheme suggests to me it was MDA.

    Honestly though, I fall into the camp that any scheme w this roster is doomed, unless healthy playoff Westbrook is the difference.
     
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  7. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Butler has had plenty of games in this playoffs where he no showed. Hell Dragic was the leading scorer for the 1st couple of rounds and Bam was leading their team in rebounds and assists. You guys are prisoners of the moment.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    In the context of a series, the Lakers just have to worry about the Heat. So if Butler is their best offensive weapon, it doesn't matter if Harden is better, it would make strategic sense if the Heat had a very stationary heliocentric offense to double Butler. There isn't some type of calculation that says "Harden is better than Butler, therefore the Lakers shouldn't double Butler".

    No, teams double the team's most dangerous offensive threat especially when that threat is so central to the offense where it's just him dribbling while everyone else just stands.

    The Rockets offense makes it easier to double Harden. That's on Harden and the scheme. Yes we'll see with the next coach if the scheme is Harden's or Dantoni's.

    I frankly won't be surprised if we ever see Harden moving more off ball. I personally think it's a limitation of his cardio conditioning and his weight.
     
  9. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Is anyone really saying Butler is better than Harden?

    No, but there are some traits of Butler I wish Harden had such as his conditioning (don't confuse conditioning with durability) and mental fortitude when things aren't going his way.
     
  10. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    So who is the primary ball handler while Harden is moving without the ball?
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The two time league assist leader or even better CP3 but unfortunately Harden doesn't like teammates that tell him to move more so no CP3.
     
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  12. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos PAT 4 LYFE
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    bUt hE hAZ a CoNCuSSIoN GuIIZ


    bUT hE hAS dBL tEaMZ
     
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  13. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    And how is that relevant to how he played this year?
     
  14. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Russell (& James) have lead the league in assists. Russell is a turnover machine now.So do better.
    How about getting a star that doesn’t get injured before the biggest game of his career. CP3 is always hurt.
     
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  15. TEXNIFICENT

    TEXNIFICENT Member

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    Why didn’t Butler will the TWolves to victory when The Rockets were spanking their ass 4-1?
     
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  16. wekko368

    wekko368 Member

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    Because it wasn't Butler's team. He joined the Timberwolves when they already had KAT and Wiggins, and KAT was considered the franchise player.

    In Miami, Butler is the undisputed leader.
     
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  17. amaru

    amaru Member

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    Recency bias is incredible isn't it.
     
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  18. rocketseagles07

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    This... shouldn’t be hard to understand
     
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Because Harden is a better player and he had a much superior team around him.
     
  20. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Harden is also a turnover machine. In fact he has a lower assist/to ratio than Westbrook for their careers.

    Dude, stop acting like a 2 time assist champion can't ****ing pass Harden the ball off a screen curl action. Stop it.

    And Harden locked out CP3 because CP3 wanted Harden to put more effort in picking up the pace and moving more often.
     

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