has anyone else noticed how much bill & calvin criticize francis?

I don't agree that other announcers are less negative. I listen to Houston and Toronto games, and frankly the Houston guys are a lot more homerish.

Last year, I couldn't count the number of times the Toronto announcers went on and on about Carter, etc. settling for the jump shot, or not playing team defense, etc. Very critical, on a nightly basis. They were also very critical of the coaching, and various other aspects of the team. They have ebeen somewhat more positive this year, as a general tone, because the team is playing with an entirely different sense of aggression, defense, and Carter is attacking rather than putting up J's, as he's healthy again, but are still quick to call Carter or someone when they revert.

And the Houston guys are waaaay more homerish when analyzing ref calls.

 

Oh yeah, I knew that.

And one of my favorite bball stories is where Jerry West threw an almost- full court shot and it went in to tie the game. He then walked back to the bench with no emotion, like it was a normal shot. (I think that was West).

 

What happened to the Clutch City board and who are you people???

Really.

C'mon what have you done with all the SF apologists who used to be here?

This can't be the same board as last year. Everyone is beginning to see the Steve for what he is, warts and all.

 

yip, that was him against the NYK in a playoff game; back then, it was still a 2-pt shot.

Clutch, how about adding trivia questions to the site ??

 

Because this thread isn't about Steve Francis. 7 and 3

 

what's wrong with them voicing their opinions?

 

You left out the best part that follows where he said "... and the mayor took the ball away from Steve!"

 

Yes, about 10 yrs ago.

 

Calvin knows a lot about the Game especially having been a a Big Time NBA Guard himself. I feel sure he sees the Franchise difficulties and that he knows just how they should be fixed. The Crowd, The Fans and people interested in Basketball are aware of these difficulties. So I see no shame in Bill and Calvin talking about them.

 

1) Re: Wilkens. I agree. It did seem a bit like pile on, except for Rautins, who was pretty critical going back a couple of years.

2) Re: Carter, don't agree. I have to break it down here, because there are a few different announcers, who have different tendencies. Rautins has always been somewhat critical, but he has had an annoying habit; When it works, it was the right thing to do, and he'll explain why...when it doesn't , it was the wrong thing to do, and he explains why. He's gotten away from that in the past year or so, to a degree, thank God, but that was his pattern for a long time. Inherent in that was constant criticism whenever something didn't work.

As for the other announcers, there has been a repeated and increasing level of criticism, particulalry for staying on the ouside. Even though the Raptors lost far morw games to injury last year than any team in history, the announcers were the first to say that beyond that those who were left over basically just quit. It was pretty intense at times. Carter was criticized for staying outside, and even when they acknowledged that his knee was a factor, they also criticed him for whining to the refs when he didn't get the calls ( which he didn't), for not getting back, for shying away. There was an aspect of encoragment...but it was sort of like tough love encouragment; Just play your game, attack, and the calls will come. 'Whine and complain and stay outside, and they won't.' kind of stuff, and a lot if in game' that's just a bad shot. there's no excuse for that...' that kind of thing. And as I mentioned, and I think some people witnessed the other night, the Toronto announcers are among the best I've seen at being balanced in how they regard ref calls...not only do they say when the Raps got the benefit of a call, but unlike many teams' announcers, they don't phrase it like it's the Rap players wisdom, status, etc. which earned them the call, they'll just say " Bad call. "

3) Re trading Carter and Francis. I really don't think so, for several reasons. On a talent level, Carter, when healthy, is a level or two above Francis. He is one of the few players who could easily ascend to being considered the best player in the league, and Francis will never be at that level. Before he got hurt he was considered amoing the top 5 players in the league, which people have forgotten since he has been hurt, and I know for a fact that the Troronto execs fully expect him to regain that status...and so far this year, he has played amazing. Attitude wise, Carter has none of the problems Francis has had...his entire attitude issues have been being too unselfish, more of a Yao thing, though not as bad, and when his knee was bothering him, and he couldn't really depend on it, staying outside. Both of thise seem to have been resolves by health, and especially by O'Neal. Wilkens was a terrible coach for Carter, but nowhe's back to where he was with Buthc Carter, only better and smarter. And lastly, and probably most importantly, Carter fills more seats than any other player in the league, and in Toronto, their attendance shot up to near the tops in the league exactly when Carter came on the scene. I doubt they would have ever traded him, even when he was playing hurt, and not near his best. Now that he's back...no chance. I se what you're thinking, and it would be a good trade for Houston, for financial and baskeball reasons, but no way does Toronto do it. Carter deciding to sign on and stay in Canada when everyone expected him to bolt to the USA was probably the biggest shot in the arm the Raps have ever gotten, and it won't be forgotten.

 

That is the coaches job, or maybe an outside source other than the Rockets organization, such as radio, or an outside interviewer.

 

I dont want to feed the conspiracy nuts, but Gene Peterson has much the same opinion. Gene just doesnt laugh as much about as the TV guys do. But I think it is Moochie who really drives Gene nuts.

If I had to sum it up for both broadcast teams, I would guess that they are all just sick of seeing SF make the same mistakes he has been making for several years now. They all want the Rockets to win. We all do. They also recognize that in order for it to happen, the ligthbulb has to go off inside Steve's head. Some people, including apparently the announcers, think 4 years is long enough and are obviously getting tired of waiting.

The funniest thing about this thread is that a couple of posters are actually angry that the broadcast team gets on Steve about making the same mistakes over and over. Good grief. The announcers are not the problem here.

 

has anyone else noticed how much the CLutch BBS criticize francis?

 

The last 2 League Pas games have had Bill and Calvin, thank god, which spurred you to comment, verse... right?

Man, I've been in heaven. It's been so long since I've got to listen to those two back to back that I can't remember the last time. I love the fact that they speak their mind. You have a verbose and slightly loony Hall of Famer who knows the game backwards and forwards and Bill, who will probably be in whatever hall of fame play-by-play people get inducted to when they retire.

I see the same thing they see (hell, they see much more, obviously), only I don't have to listen to the sugar coated BS that you get from the SA and Utah announcers, who make me want to puke. I hope we see those two on LP all the time. And they are quick to praise a Rocket player when he does something good... even the little things some of us might miss because we're caught up in the excitement of the game. And that include Francis.

Have to say it again... I love Bill and Calvin.
(And I miss the Lisa like crazy. Coop should coach or something)

 

the teflon on steve has definitely cracked

my take on Calvins criticisism of steve were that he really just expects improvement from a player with that much talent, expectation and burden after all the years he has been in the league.

i think Calvin knows who good he could be..........

being downunder i get a range of home announcers on the games we get, in general they support there home stars no matter what but when things go wrong the criticise just as much as Calvin and Bill.