Has any Coach Been More Fortunate than Phil Jackson

i could post a bunch of rolling eyes and flame you but i'll be nice. Kobe was not coached by PJ his whole career and yes, PJ stepped in when Kobe was coming into his own already. Kobe learned how to defend from Gary Payton and whoever else he asked. the guy is a fanatic. he learns from whereever he can. it was not PJ.

MJ was also dominant when PJ took over. as another poster stated, it was the maturation of Ho Grant and Pippen that helped MJ most. with Pip there MJ didn't have to guard the opposing star wing and he had someone who could take over games as well. so. yeah. go on now.

 

MJ was arguably the best player in basketball by 88. Pippen and Grant just weren't that good yet.

 

How many championships does have win Phil without Jordan or without the Lakers?
I dont want to say any coach would have won with them, but other coaches are good, but never got those players to win titles or more titles.

 

Magic Johnson is luckier than Phil Jackson? Sorry... but anyone with the HIV virus is NOT lucky lol

 

He has had some good luck, no doubt, but he has also made his own luck. He put himself in good situations, and then he made the most of them.

 

I'm not sure which game you're thinking of when you say that Kobe was on track to beat Wilt's 100 point game. If you're talking about the 81 point game, Kobe played 42 minutes in that game, so he wasn't going to break Wilt's record by playing an extra six minutes. If you're talking about the Dallas game where he sat out the entire fourth quarter, he only had 62 points when he came out, so he certainly wasn't "on track" to pass Wilt, he would have needed the highest scoring quarter in NBA history to reach 100 points.

 

phil jackson is like sean combs. he took something that was already good and was able to capitalize big time on it. he didnt do much to change what he had. he merely had the vision to let it be. both puffy and pj were very successful at it altho they werent respected as much for their MCing and coaching.

 

So you're saying Kobe was such a fanatic he learned from everyone he can except from the coach of his own team and who also happened to be the former coach of the guy he wanted so desperately to become?

And not like Kobe/Shaq and MJ won games all on their own. A lot of their wins depended on timely subs and good coaching decisions. PJ's system probably has a lot to do with it as well...

 

Phil said it himself.... I dont have a link or anything but he admitted that HE WOULD NOT COACH in a BAD SITUATION. Meaning if Lakers didn't have Kobe/Shaq he would've never gone there.

 

PJ has been VERY fortunate, obviously. But he is one of the greatest NBA coaches in history. He has always been very good with strategy and X's & O's. Some of you who think nearly any coach would have won 6 championships with the Bulls have no clue. The Bulls almost got to the NBA Finals without MJ.

When PJ came to the Lakers, he introduced the Triangle and actually got Shaq and Kobe to do what he said.

Underrate him if you like, but this very fortunate coach is great and has been great at what he does for a long time.

 

Doc Rivers would like to have a word with you

 

LOL!

Getting Coach of the Year is more like winning the lotto than any testament of skill.

 

yes, i am saying kobe tries to learn from the best. phil jackson didn't teach MJ how to shoot jumpers or how to dunk or how to play defense. he plays mind games with players who are already elite in order to get them to play with other alpha dogs who are also pretty dam good. that is PJs skill. it is a pretty dam good skill at that.

but don't give me that crap about Phil nurturing Kobe from an 18 year old who only averaged 8 ppg to the 81 point dropping beast.

i guess PJ taught Kobe how to play the post as well. if you're such a Kobe/MJ fanatic then why don't you know that Kobe personally asked GP to teach him how to defend when they played together as All-Stars or how Kobe went to Hakeem to learn some moves in the post.

Oh yeah!!! because Phil Jackson taught him those things. right? PJ gets credit for bringing the triangle to the Bulls but Tex Winters is the mastermind behind it all. or do you think it was Phil Jackson's "system"?
subbing? have you ever visited lakers forums? the guy makes so many questionable substitutions.

e.g. Why is Fisher still starting? any other PG could have learned the offense if given the chance. winning with Fisher starting is quite the feat though. gotta hand that to PJ.

nobody is saying PJ is a bad coach. nobody is even saying that ANYONE could coach his teams. i'm just saying that Phil is fortunate to coach the best. not the other way around. the guy is no doubt one of the best, but i doubt he could win with a team that wasn't stacked.

 

Well the question was Has any Coach been more fortunate than Phil Jackson?

It's a 2 page debate but nobody has named a coach that has been more fortunate.

I think it's obvious that there has not been a coach more fortunate than Phil Jackson but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a great coach.

 

Its the gift and the curse. He builds these guys into Mega superstars and then people turn around and say Phil's somehow "lucky". Other coaches have had the same type of talent but haven't had the same success (ex George Karl, Rick Carlisle). Name another coach who's won two championships with two different cores of players

 

I seriously think you could have put a Phil Jackson Fathead on the LA bench during last year's playoffs and gotten the same result (or better), particularly during the Rocket series. I really don't think he did anything at all.

 

You don't win 10 championships simply by being lucky.

 

Other coaches have coached the best player of all-time? Seriously? Do you mean whoever was coaching the Wizards when Jordan came out of retirement?

 

When Jackson returned to the Lakers after Shaq left, they were an abysmal team and his star player was openly feuding with him. Gasol was a gift -- but even with him the Lakers are not far and away the most talented team in the league. But he wins. Many others have done less with more.

And even on the Bulls he had to contend with the egos of Jordan, Pippen and Rodman.

I think in the 90's you might dismiss him as right place right time -- but he's proved otherwise since.

 

As to most fortunate coach -- how about Larry Brown. Quick success -- burn bridge -- get new contract -- rinse and repeat. (occasionally foregoing the success bit)...

His quick sojourn though New York, planned while employed at Detroit, was particularly fortuitous -- at least for his cash flow.