Harden's Last Season vs Hakeem's MVP Season

The reason why Morey's acquired Harden in the first place :

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9...houston-rockets-became-nba-most-exciting-team

Morey is all about analytics and efficiency, and there's a clear logic behind why he chose Harden as his main guy.

Shooting over 60 TS% for a SG is extremely good, and that's because Harden doesn't take that many low value/high risk mid-range jumpers, and is all about layups, getting to FT lines, and taking 3s.

Harden has higher career Offensive Rating and Offensive +/- than Hakeem. It's not a stretch to say that at least on offense, Harden is better. Of course, all around Hakeem is a better player in general, but when it comes to measuring efficiency, Harden is as good as any other legends.

 

This is really sad. :/ It breaks my heart to see someone so misguided. Brian, it may not be the popular thing to say, but solely analytically speaking Harden did have an incredible season even without media based accolades or team based accolades. I'm with you, but this isn't a battle you can win. I suggest you, and I both stop replying and let Tinman be upset.

 

No player is perfect but this is the problem with this efficiency stuff it just doesn't take into account of everything.

I say it a lot of times it's really easy to defend a team when you know what they are doing. Rockets are like a boss battle, they do what they do well but once you figure out the pattern they are easy to bring down.

Mid-range shots are important, a great offense uses every part of the floor so that the defense has to defend every part of the floor. With Harden you know he's going to try and drive for a lay up or kick it out. So defenses just pack the paint and rotate. Cover the shooters (who can barely shoot) and then get the rebound.

I WISH Harden used that mid range step back a lot more because it feels like he hardly ever misses it. I hate it when he's just trying to be as a friend calls him "Video Game James" you know how when you play 2k or if you play and you play a casual fan all they do is shoot threes are try to dunk?

When Harden does this his efficiency goes up because 3s are worth more than 2s and he goes to the line a lot. Not sure it's great offense for a team though.

I will give Harden the benefit of the doubt because of coaching, but if he's still doing this under new coaches then we will have a issue.

 

Tinman is not some Harden hater, he's just real. He's usually the first one to remind people that Clutch City was more about the team. That's what we want next year. A team that plays together and wants to win together.

I appreciate Harden too, I'm one of his defenders I guess. He has his flaws and they are pretty big. Thankfully some guys usually don't win a championship until they are like 28 and hopefully Harden will have become a more complete player.

 

Harden does take mid-range jumpers when there's a chance. It's just that it isn't worth taking 10 in a game. Again, offense was not the issue with this team this season, and there is no reason to abandon the strategy that had our offense ranked consistently in top 10 in recent years. I have my issues with Morey, but Moreyball is not one of it. I just want him to acquire better 3-point shooters so that we can execute his philosophy better.

If all the metrics point to Harden being better offensive player than Hakeem during the regular season, than I have no problem acknowledging that. Hakeem was better in the playoffs and better player in general, but 14-15 Harden was great and there is nothing wrong with comparing 14-15 Harden with any of Hakeem's regular season years.

 

again, I was talking about from advanced statistical point of view, which you completely took out of context

 

do you have any objective evidence to refute my claim? I already admitted Hakeem was better EXCEPT from analytical point of view.

 

It is if you make them. Harden hits that with so much ease some nights he should do nothing else but that. If you look at a lot of his late game winners it's that exact shot. Where he drives and fakes like he's going to the rim and steps back and swish. Feels like a lot of his game winners are that because he's comfortable with that shot.

I really don't care about Morey's philosophy, if he doesn't have the players or can't acquire the players to make it work then maybe we should do something else? More then one way to skin a cat.

Any ways I just disagree with whatever metrics those were. Hakeem was better and yes on offense too.

 

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201935/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular Season

Harden shot 40.5% from the mid-range this season, and while not bad, is not that great either. On the other hand, he shot 60.7% from the restricted area, which means he's an excellent finisher around the rim. His 3P% is a little bit down this year, but generally Harden is above average 3 point shooter, so it makes sense for him to take them.

If you are going to argue Hakeem was better on offense when all the metrics say otherwise, then we can't have any rational debate anymore. What if someone comes along and say Clint Caperla is a better offensive player than Hakeem? Wouldn't presenting solid, factual evidence the most accurate and surefire way to prove him wrong? Otherwise, how can anyone prove anyone wrong?

 

Never seen Tinny cuss like that

Hahaha

 

Naturally he should shoot closer to the rim, that's my thing. Harden's not really a 3 point shooter. He's a shooter. His game is so much like Paul Pierce and relies so much on just being a baller that knows how to manipulate the defender to get what he wants. Seems slow, but he gets the ball in. Just like Pierce wasn't really a shooter but he could step out and shoot threes. He sometimes falls in love with a 3 point shot he doesn't have.

Again, I don't know what these metrics are. If someone says Capela is a better offensive player then Hakeem I don't need metrics to know they are wrong.

 

Yes, but you need objective, factual evidence to PROVE them wrong, otherwise we can not agree on anything. How are you going to convince flat-earthers wrong? at certain point, arguing with words simply doesn't work.

 

Ships aint sailing off a cliff and falling into the vast cosmos

that is how they knew that the earth was not flat early on.

Like you presented even if Harden is the best individual on Offense in the regular season, it aint saying anything other than he is only looking for his own stats when his teammates are not doing as well.

I get that young guys want to idolize one player but it is a team sports after all.

You do not have to look at stats to know who acts like a leader, who makes everyone better.

You can just watch a game.

Harden is an extreme example that he can have the best stats but his team is just doing so so.

And if he cannot get to the FT line, he ends up having nights of 17-20 pts.

Pretty normal stats.

 

I don't argue with flat-earthers and I wouldn't argue with anyone that made a claim that Capela is better than Hakeem in any facet of the game, especially offense.

How about these metrics? DPOY, 2xFMVP, MVP, 2x Champion.

Not only was Hakeem the leader on defense but he was also the first option and his team won 2 championships. That's all the metrics I need to know. Want to compare Hakeem offensively to other 2x champions that were first options then fine.

To me winning a championship or championships put you on a different level then players that haven't. Again, I REALLY hope Harden can! I hope Harden wins 6 championships and is compared to Jordan. I am a Harden fan, well at least as long as he's a Rocket.