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Harden was 6th in "Respect rating" last season

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Sydeffect, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

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    NOTE: This was released back in January

    An old article I found from back in January written by Tom Haberstroh who is a very analytic orientated guy.

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12097042/steph-curry-leads-2014-15-respect-rating-ranks-nba

    The guy who posted the results of the insider article:

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/2000208-sports-and-racing-nba/70917260


    1. Stephen Curry, Golden State Warriors | Respect rating: 97.9
    Gravity score: 97.3 | Distraction score: 98.4

    2. Kyle Korver, Atlanta Hawks | Respect rating: 96.0
    Gravity score: 92.3 | Distraction score: 99.7

    3. Klay Thompson, Golden State Warriors | Respect rating: 94.4
    Gravity score: 89.6 | Distraction score: 99.1

    4. Mike Conley, Memphis Grizzlies | Respect rating: 87.5
    Gravity score: 79.3 | Distraction score: 95.7

    5. Gordon Hayward, Utah Jazz | Respect rating: 84.0
    Gravity score: 72.1 | Distraction score: 95.9

    6. James Harden, Houston Rockets | Respect rating: 83.3
    Gravity score: 67.2 | Distraction score: 99.3

    7. J.R. Smith, New York Knicks | Respect rating: 83.0
    Gravity score: 89.0 | Distraction score: 76.9

    8. Jamal Crawford, Los Angeles Clippers | Respect rating: 81.6
    Gravity score: 67.9 | Distraction score: 95.2

    9. Manu Ginobili, San Antonio Spurs | Respect rating: 81.4
    Gravity score: 65.4 | Distraction score: 97.3

    10. Dwyane Wade, Miami Heat | Respect rating: 79.7
    Gravity score: 82.2 | Distraction score: 77.1

    Other guys:

    Notables: Kobe Bryant (13th); Derrick Rose (14th); Carmelo Anthony (31st); Russell Westbrook (39th); Chris Paul (45th); Dirk Nowitzki (47th); LaMarcus Aldridge (72nd); LeBron James (73rd); Tony Parker (77th); Chris Bosh (86th); Kyrie Irving (97th); Lance Stephenson (99th); Anthony Davis (114th); Monta Ellis (168th); Kevin Love (177th); Rajon Rondo (182nd); Tony Allen (188th); Chandler Parsons (211st); Elfrid Payton (223rd).


    Once again, Wade is the interesting outlier to the idea that it's typically 3pt shooters dominating this list, because he's such a crafty and opportunistic off-ball slasher and defenses key in on him even more with LeBron gone. JR Smith might be small-sample-size noise (he's barely above the 500 minute cut-off and ranked 118th last year).

    Curry, Korver, and Klay are just in a class of their own in Gravity score (aside from JR's probably fluke-ish score), with Curry being even significantly higher than the other two. But Curry's only 4th in "Distraction" score; no one touches Korver there and so far it's actually Harden whom defenses have been second least likely to help off of.

    He theorizes that the max contracts may have something to do with Klay's (only up 5 spots but definitely on another tier now) and Hayward's (24th to 5th) leaps up the rankings, though I disagree because we know Klay's taken his game to another level and Hayward's been much better from downtown. Plus, I don't know where he ranked before but Chandler Parsons is waaaaay down the list (see below). He also notes drop-offs from Chris Paul and JJ Redick from the top 20 last year to outside of the top 50 in Gravity (possibly due to a big increase in long 2s from Griffin)
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. waisoserious

    waisoserious Member

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    fkn LOL at lebron - 73 lolol
     
  3. don grahamleone

    don grahamleone Contributing Member

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    In other words, this is a non-traditional stat that doesn't really mean 'best player' or anything close to that.
     
  4. Pizza_Da_Hut

    Pizza_Da_Hut I put on pants for this?

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    Ah, so the score is contingent on how closely your defender sticks to you when you're open. So what if a guy is more destructive on the dribble, and not a shooter? Wouldn't you slack off him such that he doesn't get a step on you? Steph is a fast, fast shooter. His motion is super quick, you can't slack off him. Harden is a fast driving player, the only real way to play him is to slack off him and not foul him when he holds the ball out. It seems like this stat might not be telling the whole story.
     
  5. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    The only ones I can respect on that list are Harden, Conley and Wade. All the other players, play off the ball. If you add in usage rate and ball handling rate, Harden would probably be tops on that list. Curry could be an exception cause he has exceptional handles but this stat is flawed IMO.
     
  6. shastarocket

    shastarocket Contributing Member

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    Press F to pay respects
     
  7. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

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    It's about respecting the guy's shooting ability not actually how good that player is. The guys on that list outside of JR Smith (he noted is probably an aberration because he was ranked much lower the previous season).

    He's using Sport's VU to see how defenders are reacting to that players presence on the floor.

    He's trying to quantify how much a player is willing to leave that person open to stop the ball handler.
     
  8. Sydeffect

    Sydeffect Member

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    Haberstroh noted that situation with Wade being so highly ranked.
     
  9. oakdogg

    oakdogg Contributing Member

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    Wonder why Klay has such a high Distraction Score? Never really thought of him as an elite driver. I am most interested in Distraction Score personally. Those are your offense creators, I would think. Sounds like they create open shots for their teammates.

    This is really interesting. I think it is a cool thread. Thank you.
     
  10. txppratt

    txppratt Contributing Member

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    THIS is the data that drives the @NBA
     
  11. YaoMing#1

    YaoMing#1 Member

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    I don't really know what this stuff means. I mean any list that has Hayward and Korver ahead of harden and lebron is not reliable data imo.
     
  12. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    That data makes sense, except for maybe the way he's combining it... it sounds like the distraction score should be more heavily weighted.


    We can tell why Harden's distraction score is so high, but it makes sense that his gravity score is lower, because he doesn't do as much off-ball movement as a player like Korver or Curry. He creates most of his own plays with the ball in his hands. That's probably something he should improve, though.

    On that note, even though Harden improved significantly in almost every way between '13-'14 and '14-'15, off-ball movement/playmaking is the one thing that kind of declined a bit... but that's probably because we had Lin and Parsons on the team. So I expect that with Lawson now, Harden may become a nightmare off ball, and that "gravity" score may go up significantly.


    Read it, and you might understand.
     
  13. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    Dumbest stat ever.
     
  14. rm365

    rm365 Contributing Member

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    Jr Smith #7... End thread
     
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    Parsons has always been hesitant on offense. He doesn't seem to have a meter for knowing when to attack, shoot or command the ball. He's just kind of out there... letting the game come to him. Horry used to have the same problem.
     
  16. RHU525

    RHU525 Member
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    Makes a lot of sense. When you guard Lebron you want him to take the 3 not drive. So everyone plays off him.
     
  17. finsraider

    finsraider Member

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    When Gordon Haywood and JR Smith are in your top 10, there's a flaw. I would think this stat would be highly susceptible to style of play, other players on the court, and offensive strategy.

    For example, 49% of Curry's shots are 3s while only 37% of Harden's are. Knowing that Harden likes to drive and kick more, you would think defenders would stick close to our shooters when he penetrates (like what we saw in the WCF). This would distort Harden's "distraction" rating.

    I have no doubt that Curry has the highest "gravity" impact, but the stat seems kind of useless when Lebron is ranked #73 and JR Smith is #7.
     
  18. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    Wierd list of players. Wierd stat.
     
  19. do work son

    do work son Member

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    a whole lot of "i don't know what this stat means so it must suck!" posts in here.

    read a little bit, take the number for what it's worth, and keep moving.
     
  20. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    GTA V stats ey??
     

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