I'm a die hard basketball fan. I know the media loves them some Warriors. Shoots and rightfully so, they are one of the best teams in the NBA. Who also has a strong chance of winning it all this year. Do I want them to win, heck no. It would be nice if Harden and our Rockets would take the NBA by surprise and win it all this year. You talk about a great story that would be. So you are seriously telling me a player of Pippen caliber ( you are the one that brought Pippen into the mix) is overrated. That means you truly think Pippen's career was a big OVERRATED. So the HOF voters made a mistake and he shouldn't be in the top 50 of all times. I really don't understand the mindset in a lot of you posters on here. Klay is one of the best SG'S in the NBA. And there is no way in hell he's overrated. And you're talking about opinions. Dude that is a your opinion in which you are trying to spin as a fact. I can guarantee you that no player or coach in the NBA would agree with your hot take that Klay is overrated. And I mean no one.
Relax. No need to mirror my words back at me. If you're just going to completely discount a very cogent, relevant argument and then label it as an "agenda" what's the point in having a conversation on here? No need to worry about who is going to "win" this conversation. I have nothing at stake here. I'm trying to figure out your position in this Klay vs Harden thread if "how they are individually bears little to you". That seems conflicted. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your position here. I like Klay as a player and honestly there have been times when I hated Harden's play and didn't want him on the Rockets. Your most recent argument seems to be that Klay is better than Harden because he is better at being a support player and a contributor to his situation. From that perspective, you have a good argument and I'd agree that makes him very valuable. You don't like the "different situation" line of conversation, got it. We can't really measure that in Klay's favor yet. In the future, we might be able to. But the closest people can traditionally get to objectively measuring a player's "greatness" is to define their skill sets and what sets them apart from other players. Historically revered players like Wilt, Jordan, Olajuwon were not products of situations. James Harden isn't, either. They had definable skillsets that set them apart from other players and would have made them a coveted asset for any team in any era. If Klay keeps this up he could pass Ray Allen and Reggie Miller and become a hall-of-fame player. But those guys are not held in the same esteem as all-round workhorse players like Olajuwon, Jordan, and what Harden could be if we give him the same benefit of the doubt as Klay. Hopefully both players can keep getting better... and Harden can earn the same respect level that Klay is getting.
my position as far as this thread title from day 1 has always been Harden is the better overall player. But that in no way makes me discredit how good Klay is by bringing him down for who he is as a player and the things he does at a very high level.
I think you're both understanding and misunderstanding my position. Don't try to lump everyone here into statements like "I don't understand the mindset in a lot of you posters here". We're all coming from different angles. My point about Pippen was not that he shouldn't be in the hall. Klay could be in the hall someday. When Pippen wasn't in Jordan's shadow, how did things go for him? Not extremely well. Remember Rockets Pippen? That was my point. People can discount that to age, and many other factors. Probably truth to all of it. But Pippen IS viewed in basketball circles as the consummate wingman uber role player. There is no shame in that. Every team would like to have a Pippen. But the fact that I have to explain this is symptomatic of what's going on with Klay. Speaking any ill or negativity about Harden is socially palatable. Saying anything negative or even reasonably critical of Klay? LOOKOUT. Flame suit warning! How dare you question a deity! When we're comparing two players, like Klay versus Harden, someone has to win. That doesn't mean the other player sucks. But if you have to pick one, this conversation can't be "everyone's a winner!". Right now, I'll take the workhorse player over the uber wingman.
Sorry, guess I misunderstood. I haven't read the majority of this thread. Just responding to individual posts that don't seem to ring true for me.
Pippen without Jordan immediately followed with 22.0 points, 8.7 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 2.9 steals, and 0.8 blocks per game 49.1% FG and 32% from 3 1st of three straight All NBA 1st teams. 3rd in MVP voting. 55-27 record. EC semifinals losing 4-3
I'm a die hard basketball fan. I know the media loves them some Warriors. Shoots and rightfully so, they are one of the best teams in the NBA. Who also has a strong chance of winning it all this year. Do I want them to win, heck no. It would be nice if Harden and our Rockets would take the NBA by surprise and win it all this year. You talk about a great story that would be. So you are seriously telling me a player of Pippen caliber ( you are the one that brought Pippen into the mix) is overrated. That means you truly think Pippen's career was a big OVERRATED. So the HOF voters made a mistake and he shouldn't be in the top 50 of all times. I really don't understand the mindset in a lot of you posters on here. Klay is one of the best SG'S in the NBA. And there is no way in hell he's overrated. And you're talking about opinions. Dude that is a your opinion in which you are trying to spin as a fact. I can guarantee you that no player or coach in the NBA would agree with your hot take that Klay is overrated. And I mean no one. Pippen still lead his team's to the playoffs. Dude was balling his butt off in Jordan's absence. Rockets Pippen didn't want to be the main man. We don't know what Klay would do if he was playing on another team. That's a fact and not some hyperbole you charged me up with. Both players (Harden and Klay) are not exempt from criticism or being critique. But to say Klay is not a workhorse is pure ludicrous. Anybody can tell this man put in a lot of work to be where he's at now. Thus the reason why some many people who actually played in the NBA has him either at #1 or 2 at his position. And I don't need to explain anything to be. You have your opinion and I have mines. Your opinion is not greater than mines. So let's get off the high horse with your symptomatic comment there bud.
Klay Thompson=JJ Redick. JJ would be putting up similar numbers on Offense playing with the Warriors.
The stupid people would. Knowledgeable fans know the deal. Heck There are easily 10 guards I would take instead of Klay.
....so what is so special about this? Why should I be more impressed by Klay's ability to go for 30 any given night than Harden averaging that. Harden goes for 30 almost every game. Klay does it spontaneously whenever he's needed. People are fascinated by Klay's higher scoring outputs because they are much rarer.
didn't say you should be more impressed. That point was made in response to believing Klay is overrated not for you specifically to be impressed. At the end of the day he's a great player. Klay is more than capable of going for 30 just as much as Harden at any time but in a different fashion. And that's no reason to fault him. Teams absolutely fear his ability to score. Take it for what it's worth however you want to
Nobody is saying Klay is not a great player. Who said that? Anybody who said that is silly. He's obviously a great player. His shooting and defense absolutely are valuable pieces to the Warriors success. And....he's also overrated. He's not the best 2 guard. His defense is not lockdown like ESPN would like you to believe. He is not a Top 10 player like some try to push. He's is not better than James Harden. He is surrounded by stars and elite coaching which naturally enhance him. That is not a fault to him, but it is also worthy of noting when talking about his true talent/skill/value.
there's plenty of responses here that say that as far as being a great player. again not overrated to me. In fact by the amount of criticism he gets from people here I'd say far from it.
I guess I'm talking on a more casual/national fan level. Klay is a great player. Anybody saying otherwise shouldn't be payed attention to. Being on the Warriors definitely enhances his perception, though.
Big misconception in this post - Klay is a special shooter without a doubt and has gotten better at putting the ball on the floor on aggressive closeouts and driving to the hoop, but GS's coaching staff specifically puts Klay in spots where he doesn't have to dribble the ball because at least in the Mark Jackson era of the Warriors he was a subpar ballhandler at best. I suspect he's maybe competent by now, but he's not the type of guy you can give the ball at the top of the key and say, "make something happen" because it will result in a poor shot or turnover. Teams fear him taking spot up shots or coming off screens for sure, but Harden does that well too AND has outstanding ballhandling and playmaking abilities. Klay is still a great player and possibly a top 3 shooter in the league, but don't let the system he plays in and the players he plays with hide the fact that if you magically traded Harden for Klay, Klay would be an embarrassment(compared to Harden) if he were the primary playmaker in Houston.
I was referring to the statement "teams fear his ability to score" - makes it sound like Klay is an elite scorer in the realm of Harden which I don't think he is. He's definitely an elite shooter, and teams fear the damage he can inflict coming off screens, etc - but he falls short of elite as a scorer. Compare him to let's say a Ray Allen and Allen could create offense in his prime even with the defense keyed in on him - teams feared his ability to score in a number of ways - not just coming off pin downs because he was a deadeye shooter. My point is, Klay's a far more limited offensive player to Harden so the statement 'teams fear his ability to score' needs a little more description to be accurate.
