1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

  2. Watching NBA Action
    Can former Rocket Eric Gordon and the Suns bounce back against the Timberwolves? Come join Clutch as we're watching NBA playoff action live!

    LIVE: NBA Playoffs!
    Dismiss Notice

Harden: To win a Championship - He Must Do EVERYTHING!!!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Rocket River, Sep 28, 2020.

  1. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    When does Steph Curry get doubled like Harden?

    What in the F am I reading?

    Totally different players and a waste of easy 4 on 3 opportunities as we have seen over the last 5 years.
     
    D-rock and HP3 like this.
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    He flips them to the one player the defense allows which is always going to be the worst shooter which leads to that open guy who is a bad shooter taking a bad shot or having to pass out because he knows he isn't a good shooter which provides more than enough time due to our stationary offense and stationary Harden to recover where the team is playing 4 on 4 offense with our best scorer just standing there.
     
    HTown_TMac and hakeem94 like this.
  3. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    He flips it to the open man as he should, just as Lebron does. It is up to that player (AN NBA PLAYER) to make good, aggressive decisions to get good shots so we have efficient offense. Our offense has been historically efficient for how many years now?

    When we got a top 5 defense, what happened?
     
    D-rock and HP3 like this.
  4. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Defenses don't want to make that dumb decision on Curry to double or shade off ball. Why? Remember backyard football when your teammates tells you "don't rush that QB, he's too fast and he's just going to run by us".

    Well that's Curry. They double him off ball and try to deny him the ball, Curry knows that a defender can't impede the progress off a off ball player hence Curry is going to sprint through screens and either discombobulate the defense or get free and get a good look.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  5. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    Entire are offenses are contemplated for years in an effort to get the 4 on 3s that Harden creates like it is nothing.

    Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled...
     
    D-rock, HP3 and hakeem94 like this.
  6. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    No, they don't do that to Curry because he isn't a threat like James Harden is a threat.

    Just stick Delle on him and he will fold like a wet blanket.
     
    D-rock and HP3 like this.
  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Our offense is historically efficient in the regular season when teams play a different opponent every other night and can't aggressively memorize all our tendencies and mannerisms. It falls apart in the playoffs. We are a very monotonous offense that can be easily gsmeplanned for in a 7 game series.

    If you notice a trend with Harden, he actually does usually amazing in game 1s of playoff series and usually struggles efficiency wise after that first game.
     
    BHannes2BHonest and hakeem94 like this.
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Ya the most dangerous shooter of all time and one of the best ball handlers of all time isn't a threat. Dude you really live in a hyper fan bubble.
     
  9. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    I don't remember our offense falling apart in 2018 when we were healthy and up 3-2. Do you?

    I DO however remember us sticking it to perhaps the greatest team ever assembled, with the proper personnel to suit the 4 on 3 that James creates.

    Did Harden struggle efficiency wise this year? :D
     
    D-rock and YOLO like this.
  10. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    Not like James Harden is a threat, no... o_O

    Not even close to understanding this game, and the tempo that Harden creates that rivals only Lebron, and perhaps Luka.

    Steph isn't close to that.
     
  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Our offense was horrible in that Warriors series. Most of our wins except one was purely due to holding GS under 100 pts. That series was a defensive slug fest. We got GS to iso a lot and slow their scoring down considerably.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Ya both are threats. Hence why I want our best offensive threat to ****ing shoot the ball in closing situations where the offense is falling apart and a team is making a comeback in the 4th during the playoffs.

    The difference between the two is that defenses are afraid what happens when you double Curry. He's going to ****ing run.

    You double offensive threats that don't move much because it has a far greater chance of stagnating the offense.
     
    hakeem94 likes this.
  13. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2006
    Messages:
    28,098
    Likes Received:
    21,316
    https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2018.html#all_misc

    We were damn near identical on both ends of the court, efficiency wise.

    6th on O-rating AND D-Rating... If you subtract game 6 and 7 without Chris Paul, we are elite offensively.

    Either way, you should be expecting a little drop-off when intensity peaks in the playoffs. That is to be expected. It doesn't take away from the fact that James Harden was leading a historic OFFENSE AND DEFENSE, by creating 4 on 3's with proper personnel.
     
    #33 RudyTBag, Sep 29, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
    D-rock, YOLO and HP3 like this.
  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    The Rockets in the 2018 WCF had a 104.9 offensive rating while in the regular season of that same year they had a 115.5 offensive rating only second to the GSW.
     
  15. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 1999
    Messages:
    61,637
    Likes Received:
    29,048
    Didn't the Rockets generate the highest number of open threes?

    Rocket River
     
    D-rock likes this.
  16. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,007
    Likes Received:
    11,983
    So then personnel IS the problem.

    We saw how great this all works when we had the right personnel.

    We once had a rotation that was top to bottom smart and skilled.

    Tilman took over and the smart and skilled has turned into dumb and one dimensional as cost cutting trumped quality talent.

    And the same people still want to levy the majority of the blame on Harden for being unable to spin **** into gold.
     
    D-rock, RudyTBag, YOLO and 1 other person like this.
  17. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    Is the personnel the problem when the personnel requires all 4 of Harden's teammates to be good shooters then because one below average shooter means they will play off him and force Harden to pass to him.

    It would be just easier to install a more motion dependant offense than finding 4 shooters at all times surrounded by Harden. Usually with any NBA line up there is one person that isn't a good shooter. Even the Warriors didn't have all 5 of their guys in there starting line up as above average shooters with Draymond or Iggy or one of their big men during their dominant era like Bogut.
     
  18. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,007
    Likes Received:
    11,983
    No one said they have to be all good shooters. If Westbrook could still dribble a ball and get by his man he would be just fine as an outlet even though you probably could knock down jumpers better than he could.

    Dray and Iggy are smart skilled players even without a jumper. They can dribble and make the right play. We could use more guys like that.
     
    D-rock, HP3 and YOLO like this.
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    47,730
    Likes Received:
    36,652
    I mean Westbrook us by far better dribbler than those two and a better penetrator. I think the problem with Westbrook this postseason was he was in preseason game shape due to the COVID hiatis that roasted 4 months and then being injured as soon as the bubble started leaving him with very limited playing time.
    Pre-covid Westbrook would have made the Lakers series far more interesting.
     
  20. T for 3

    T for 3 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5,762
    Likes Received:
    7,996
    I love how, in this forum, asking a superstar player to exert max effort, cut, pass, shoot and defend is somehow unrealistic.
     
    CK Johnson likes this.

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now