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Harden - Simmons trade

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by HROZ, Oct 30, 2020.

  1. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    Don’t throw stuff at me that was said a month ago. Then I would have traded Harden.....since, reports say he is ok with Westbrook being traded. Now I wouldn’t trade Harden.

    You don’t know about basketball. I lived through Ron Artest demanding a trade. Team loses all leverage.
    It took them a month to find a trade. They were lucky to get anything back.

    Trading Harden or Westbrook during the season is near Impossible to make $40 million dollar contracts without
    taking back complete garbage. That’s why trading Westbrook needs to be done this offseason before teams
    set their rosters.

    Here is the Ron Artest junk.
    https://www.sbnation.com/2010/1/25/1123345/1-25-2006-pacers-trade-ron-artest

    Now I’m done with you. I’ve wasted enough time trying to educate the uneducated.
    You probably just started watching and tracking the NBA about 3 years ago.
    Acting like you know something.
     
  2. Juxtaposed Jolt

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    ???
     
  3. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    lol let me refresh your short memory and warped perception. the discussion was about Ben Simmons. You said he is as great as Giannis and cited usage percentage. I countered your argument. Now you are deflecting into some crazy rant. Lol. Just stop and be on your merry way.
     
  4. Stephen_A

    Stephen_A Member

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    Honestly you still have reading comprehension problems and one of those people arguing just to prove a point that doesn’t exist.
     
    #144 Stephen_A, Nov 15, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  5. ApacheWarrior

    ApacheWarrior Member

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    per NBA.com
    https://www.nba.com/stats/players/spot-up/?SeasonYear=2017-18&SeasonType=Regular Season

    Play-Type....Giannis (19/29) NBA percentile......Ben Simmons (19/20)—NBA percentile—Simmons(17/18)....

    Isolation.............................58.3..................................................74.1...................................................56.0.............

    Transition...........................55.2...................................................21.3..................................................32.2............

    PnR (ball handler)..............93.9....................................................39.5.................................................51.9............

    PnR (ball roll-man).............66.4....................................................45.4.................................................. — ............

    Post Up...............................52.3....................................................39.4.................................................16.7..........

    Handoffs.............................96.5.....................................................16.5.................................................. — ...........

    Cuts....................................51.2......................................................61.6.................................................88.7..........

    Put Backs............................89.1.....................................................44.0................................................71.3...........

    Misc.....................................96.2......................................................46.6...............................................60.3...........

    Spot Up...............................54.7.......................................................85.3...............................................9.9.............
    ____________________________________________

    So I’m saying look at “Spot Up” for example. Ben went from 9.9 in (17/18) to 85.3 in (19/20).....role with team and
    who is around them matters. I used (17/18) season for Ben because that’s before Horford/Tobias Harris/ Butler &
    Embiid was playing every other game (less clutter). Ben had a USG% of 22.3% back then.

    Now compare that to Giannis numbers while sporting a 37.5% USG% here in (19/20).
    I’m saying give Ben Simmons a 31% USG% while getting him out of the shadows of Jimmy Butler/Embiid/Horford/T Harris.
    With exception of Horford they all need the ball in their hands most of the time.

    Here is Harden before and immediately after getting out of the shadows of Durant/Westbrook/ibaka:
    Harden:.............USG%.........pts.......ast........rebs........PER........WS.........
    (11/12) OKC:.......21.6%...........16.8......3.7.........4.1.........21.1........9.3.........
    12/13) Houston:..29.0%..........25.9.....5.8.........4.9..........23.3........12.8.......

    So you can see where increased USG% with different role of going from backseat passenger to front seat driver
    changes the numbers of a player. Giannis has been allowed to be front seat driver since he entered the league.
    Ben has not had that luxury.

    Now I’m sure I haven’t changed your mind that Ben can be great in this league; but you haven’t convinced me
    that he can’t under the right circumstances. Called a stalemate. So long sucker. I’m done with you.
     
    #145 ApacheWarrior, Nov 15, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
    D-rock likes this.
  6. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    If Harden is demanding a trade, Simmons might be about the best we could get in return.

    Simmons and Richardson and picks.

    Westbrook for spare parts and picks.
     
  7. Caprah

    Caprah Member

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    Fuk the beard if he wants out .. I say trade him to Cleveland .. all is well in love and war
     
  8. Vivi

    Vivi Member

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    Simmons, Thybulle (over Richardson, to have more and longer control, Richardson is about to get paid) and picks.

    Use Wesbtrook and other pieces (Tucker, Covington) to get to the n.1 pick.
     
    D-rock, joshuaao and Tristan_fiore like this.
  9. dmoneybangbang

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    Ben Simmons is a 24 year old point forward/center and is the type of foundational piece that resets the franchise window. We will never get fair value for Harden but we can rebuild with a potential future mvp. No I don't expect Simmons to become a competent shooter but at 6'10 he can figure out ways to score while becoming an elite playmaker/elite defensive player. Simmons and WB would be a terrible fit but with a shortened season and a new window we could afford to let the season play out with WB instead of having a fire sale. We could afford to be more patient with Gordon who could probably use a change of role on the rockets.
     
    #149 dmoneybangbang, Nov 15, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  10. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    Ben Simmons with a 3 point shot could absolutely be the #1 on a championship team.

    the problem is the 3 point shot.

    that said he’s obviously not an mvp caliber player at the moment and to see him getting there without developing that shot would be tough... but he could get closer probably than any other player the Rockets would likely get back in a Harden trade.

    is there a player better than Simmons you could get for Harden? I mean I’d call up Boston first and ask for Tatum but they’re hanging up.
     
    Vivi likes this.
  11. finsraider

    finsraider Member

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    Simmons is a less dominant Giannis at this point in his career. He’s 2 years younger, so there’s a chance he improves, but we aren’t even sure if Giannis can do it in the playoffs.

    I’m not saying we can do better, but it’s more likely than not that he’s just a lesser Giannis.
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Even if you got Simmons. You think he is going to be happy here in this dumpster fire? He is a Klutch client.
     
    Kim likes this.
  13. Little Bit

    Little Bit Member

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    Exactly. He will go bye bye as soon as the opportunity rises.
     
    Kim likes this.
  14. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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  15. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    lol. There were videos of him doing that before this past season during practice, too. Come gametime 3's become like salad to a fat man to him.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  16. John Harvey

    John Harvey Member

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    wtf .. i'd ban you for asking this if i was in charge.
     
  17. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    I think Simmons would be a killer center in an MDA type system. Off ball, he could play like Clint, lobs, PnR, cut and finish, on ball surround him with 4 shooters and let him slash and assist, like Russ, can't have him on the floor with other non-shooters, but unlike Russ, can park him next to the basket as a 6'10 player.

    Without a shot he'll never be a #1 option on a championship team, at best he could try to mimic Giannis, but Giannis himself seems incapable of leading his team in the playoffs. I think he'd be a really great #2 next to a Harden/Lillard type with the right fitting roster.
     
    D-rock likes this.
  18. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    This thread is mad depressing.
     
    True Rocket likes this.
  19. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Harden + Simmons should be the goal.

    Eventually Morey will trade him because Embiid and Simmons is just too inefficient.
     
    Rudyc281 likes this.
  20. IslandB.O.I.

    IslandB.O.I. Member

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