If Harden shows 100% defensive effort every night on every play, it will help turn the season around. He doesn't have to do it all season, but for next stretch of games, he needs to show he wants to win and that all starts on defense.
Great description. People act like Harden is breaking off some exotic play to hold the ball. Most of the time, the entire team is clueless. It's like a self filling prophecy that the ball will end up in Harden's hands. Only way to solve it is run an actual system. "Read and React" doesn't work when it gets tight.
On several plays, it actually does. We are not a motion offense. So, when Harden is a weakside option (or anyone weakside), we use them to provide spacing for the strong side, by standing at the arc. Why would he move, until the strong side options swing the ball? For instance, Lawson running a PnR strong side (which he likes to do from the wing vs the top of the key, sometimes) requires Harden to sit at the arc.
Harden is not all that good at playing off the ball, he does not move without the ball well. There are players who are really good at it, Harden is not one of those players. DD
Yes, Harden is leading the league in turnovers. Here's some others who have led the league in turnovers: Moses Malone Kevin Johnson Isiah Thomas Magic Johnson John Stockton Karl Malone Shaquille O'Neal Charles Barkley Adrian Dantley Jason Kidd Allen Iverson Paul Pierce Steve Nash Russell Westbrook John Wall So what does leading the league in turnovers prove other than the player is handling the ball a ton? Have you looked at the top 10 TOV/game for this year? 2) Wall 3)Westbrook 5)Rondo 6)George 7)Curry 9) Lebron I'm guessing that you believe that there's a correlation between lower turnovers and playoff success? Here's a good article from 2013 that talks about that very thing:
Yeah that was bizarre. Why in the world did JBB not call a timeout there? Our guys looked exhausted and like they were anticipating a timeout being called. All 5 on the court.
I am fine with him leading the league in turnovers if he is also not the primary facilitator. Most of those guys above were scorers, which Harden is as well, the point was that he is NOT a good facilitator. Give the ball to Lawson who IS a good facilitator - and allow Harden to focus on what he does best, score. The guys on that list that lead the league in turnovers AND were the primary facilitator all had Assist to turnover ratios far great then 2-1.....Harden is a lousy facilitator. DD
So if you have the same number of turnovers and assists but you split them up among two guys then you're ok with it? Is that what you just said?
No, I am saying if you are not relying on Harden to also set up others, but that his turnovers are when he is doing his primary job - scoring, that is ok. My problem with Harden is that he is a risky passer, and not in a good way - his vision is not all that great - and his passes are weak. He is a DECENT passer for a 2 guard, but he is a LOUSY passer for a point, and he is being asked to be both. Get the ball to someone that is GOOD at setting up teamates, including Harden. The problem for me is in role definition - Lawson has sucked, because he is not playing the role of what he is good at....PG.....Harden has been great at scoring but lousy at assisting ...1 to 1 Assist to turnover is crap for the primary facilitator. Give players roles which emphasize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. DD
You are describing a narrow version of "playing off the ball." Harden Post-ups do indeed count as off the ball. He also attacks well in catching coming around screens. I can also show you how poorly our picks are for him vs Curry's picks. He's also starting to run PnR with Lawson as ballhandler. But you're right, he's no Reggie, Curry or Rip at the catch and shoot off of picket fences. But again, you are talking way too much hyperbole for truth's sake once again. Why do you insist on having that type of bbs personality. btw: on Spot-up, Harden is 95% percentile in the league at PPP success. on Hand-offs, Harden is 73% percentile, right there with Klay, Kawhi and Curry on Cuts, Rockets aren't that efficient, but Harden is still better than Ginobody by significant measure off Screens, Curry is off the charts, but Harden is still better than Klay at 62% percentile PPP on Post-up, Curry doesn't qualify with only 1 attempt. Harden is not as efficient as I'd guessed, but better than Dwight and Anthony Davis.
HP. All of those are off the ball stats, which are fairly limited considering Harden's usage rate. But if those are accurate, doesn't that prove my point that he should be playing a lot more OFF the ball than on it? Let Lawson do his thing, and Harden concentrate on scoring - define the roles - let guys do what they are good at doing.....we are asking far too much of Harden to score and assist, one he is good at one he is average at. DD
Why would you say that without seeing his PnR and ISO stats? Nice how you assume he must suck at that, since I didn't post it. Beside, JBB did indeed say developing new ways to get Harden the ball is a main focus, and we see that, especially last game. Why are you this way? You are so fixed on your way of thinking it is so not worth it to even talk to you. You use hyperbole when it isn't even necessary. And you know when you do it, but you still choose to exaggerate every chance you get. Life never works in the narrow view that you present so often. So not worth it trying to talk to you when you are mad or frustrated.
I see what I see, because of how I like basketball to be played. Stats are trailing indicators - people who can SEE fit, and complimentary acquisitions are better GMs, IMHO. You think Jerry West used analytics to build the lakers or help with the Warriors? People who use stats as any indicator of potential success are lacking that vision of the human element, the chemistry - how players fit on a team - the chemistry - which is as important if not more important than statistics. I think Harden is a GREAT scorer, an ALL star player, but he has major weaknesses in passing, and lacks leadership. For me, skill is only half the battle, and putting players in a position that emphasizes strengths and limits weaknesses is the mark of a great organization. The Spurs rarely ask guys to do things they are NOT good at, they do a great job of putting their players in roles in which they can excel. That is what is missing from this organization, the understanding of skill sets, and putting players together that compliment each other. I am of the ilk that asking Harden to do LESS makes our team better. DD
Should Lebron be playing off the ball too so he can concentrate on scoring? How about Curry? Do you consider those guy bad facilitators? Both have slightly lower TO totals than Harden and both have slightly lower assists. Their assist to TO ratio is similar to Hardens. Today's NBA is based on versatility and the GSW are the poster children for it. The league is now about having players that can do multiple things and can be used interchangeably.We need more guys that can do multiple things rather than trying to restrict players into specific skills. We already have too many players that are only good at one thing. We need more players that can contribute in multiple ways. A good example is a big man with good passing skills. Most of the better teams today have a big that is a really good passer. The few glimpses that Capela has shown this year with some interior passes shows what an advantage that could be. That's a skill that we are currently lacking (I know that you're going to mention D-Mo but I'm not even going there). Lawson certainly should handle the ball but that doesn't mean that Harden shouldn't too. Its not like Harden has the ball every possession as people like to pretend. Lawson and Harden can co-exist just like Lebron and Kyrie co-exists. Even with a high usage player there's still plenty of touches. Westbrook and Durant are two high usage guys on the same team and Ibaka and Kanter and even Waiters still get touches.
DaDakota, Sorry, can't talk to you if you are not going to comment on why you always unnecessarily exaggerate what you see happening, in order to reinvent a reality that fits into the "how you like to see basketball" world order of yours. "I see what I see, because of how I like basketball to be played." -- DaDakota It's a very shallow way to post. You know you do it. You know it's lazy. And I'm saying it's OK to vent. We are here to vent with you. But, you just will never cease. It's not worth it for many of us to talk to you, because you are so narrowly focused on seeing what you want to see, as you just said.
One of the best offensive possessions last night for the Rockets was when both Harden and Ty were relentlessly attacking the rim. Our offense would be much better if they did that all the time: both attack and eventually their defense will break down. But defense is way more of an issue at this point.
If we stopped allowing dribble penetration with horrible rim protection, then all this talk about offense wouldn't matter
Fine with me - If someone has some actual knowledge or can talk to the game itself, I will listen. But those that quote stats alone are no different than looking at a box score.... Stats are a trailing indicator - they are after the fact stuff, and a lot of them are inaccurate because they have humans putting in the data, like what is a contested shot and what isn't - because with the eyeballs you can see when a guy is seriously contesting a shot vs someone that is just getting a hand up late, but both would be considered contested in most advanced data situations. Making it garbage in, garbage out.... Harden has the ball in his hands a lot, and I believe, that the team would BENEFIT by him having it out of his hands more often and playing as the end of the play, or in the middle rather than the initiator. That is what I believe - so if you don't...fine with me, I can live with thinking I am right and you are wrong - I am sure you can as well. DD
People love or hate Harden. I personally don't like watching him. I like the faster movement when he is on the bench. We will never win with him.
