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Harden needs to be better

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by justtxyank, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Usually he peaks way before the playoffs, hope this year will be different.
     
  2. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    We should have traded him for Klay Thompson.
     
  3. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    Which points do you agree with?
     
  4. andyacecandy

    andyacecandy Member

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    He lacks the killer instinct we need come playoff time. Sure, he's great when we're playing well and he can rack up the stats. But when's the last time he put his foot on the gas when we were trailing late in a big game? He gets so passive in big moments. Come playoff time, it'll be even worse when all games are close and competitive.
     
    saleem likes this.
  5. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    He needs to lead the team every night, by example. Otherwise, the other players, will get demoralised.
     
    kjayp likes this.
  6. saleem

    saleem Contributing Member

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    That is my biggest concern as well. I want to see the James Harden who fought GS tooth and nail in Games 1 and 2 in the WC Finals against GS.
    It is rare to see him in that mode.
     
    Stormy1234 likes this.
  7. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    some people are too cool to care...
     
  8. FTW Rockets FTW

    FTW Rockets FTW Contributing Member

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    Maybe he had too many Gumbos and Cajun fried food during all star break?
     
  9. Andy Sheets

    Andy Sheets Contributing Member

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    I got a laugh out of the announce crew last night suggesting that the Rockets' 3's were hitting the front of the rim because taking so many 3's has been wearing them out.
     
    justtxyank likes this.
  10. Tha_Dude

    Tha_Dude Contributing Member

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    Damn that's some good food, though.
     
  11. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I noticed whenever both Ariza and Beverley (A&B) went cold, we usually would struggle unless Harden went into beast mode. A&B are the true X-factor.

    We can't expect Harden to go into beast mode every game, and both Ariza and Beverley are streaky shooters. This team still has holes.

    Harden is never a dead-eye quick shooter like some of those elite gunslingers. He is more a crafty scorer type. So he needs space to operate. When his teammates aren't hitting, the defense just packs in to crowd his space.
     
    J Sizzle and Stormy1234 like this.
  12. T for 3

    T for 3 Member

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    The whole point of my following this up, is to show that my claims in previous posts, were not baseless. You used the schedule excuse in previous posts, and as more similar losses pile up after the break, you will be less able to say that what I said in previous posts was baseless. This is one game, but I will continue to be proven correct with time, because with each one of these losses, your "better teams, with less rest" argument becomes more and more baseless in itself.

    This was not your argument. Your argument was "It is pointless to criticize harden, because he is doing everything he can for this team, they are performing at their maximum potential" There was no talk of harden being at fault for anything anywhere in the previous post.
    My point was that there are things he is doing that are hurting this team, and games like last night do nothing but prove my point.

    In no way did I imply that MDA agrees with my entire philosophy on Harden. You said last nights game wasn't an effort issue, I said MDA's statements are contrary to that.

    I also never argued that Harden was MORE responsible than any of the other players on the floor during games like this. But, to say that statements like MDA's are not a clear message to a leader of the team before anyone else? That's just plain wrong. I don't know where you are coming up with these 90 %-10% figures? why don't we try 50-50. Hell, even 60-40 would work.

    The best part of all this was when you tried to put blame on D'Antoni. First it was the schedule, now D'antoni is getting out coached?? That is some major league goal post shifting, yet i'm the one who doesn't see the big picture??

    My argument has been consistent. I have a clear vision of the Big Picture, it may differ from yours, but I see the Big Picture.

    from previous post:

    So you want to compare to the top teams? How many losses do the warriors or spurs have that are a direct result of loosing leads? not as many as the Rockets.


    from previous post:

    --

    My point here was not to question your fandom (sorry I omitted almost). You sidestepped the point, which was, there have already been plenty of games they could have theoretically "learned from" . That excuse holds little water.

    Most of this is homeristic blabber. Don't tell me I don't know how to diagnose problems and all that bullshit. You have no Idea how many opinions there are in front offices around the league that are anti-harden, and to insinuate that you do Is laughable. Again, you are concerning yourself with how much better the Rockets have performed relative to expectations THIS SEASON. My concern is with harden's overall ability be a championship player now, AND in the future.

    YOU are looking at a smaller range of time than I am. (talking about achievements this season). I am more concerned with the broader spectrum of Harden's capabilities beyond this season, and whether he is ultimately the key to a championship team.

    That my friend, is looking at the big picture.

    If you want to say I told you so, fine. but getting out of the first round of the playoffs does nothing to settle this debate in your favor.
     
    #92 T for 3, Feb 28, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
    brewer's goat likes this.
  13. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Hard to believe the better basketball teams with better talent end up winning in the playoffs over worse basketball teams with less talent. Hard to believe, indeed.
     
    justtxyank likes this.
  14. apollo33

    apollo33 Member

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    Harden is more on and off than most super stars in the league, this is not new.

    He becomes very passive when things don't go his way. Is Normal. He doesn't really have the athleticism to go balls to the wall to score like Westbrook and Lebron, he thrives on reading offence and being crafty.
     
    Easy and J Sizzle like this.
  15. HR Dept

    HR Dept Contributing Member

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    Well, that's one way to put it. But if the rim protection and rebounding were better, I think this version of Harden that we currently have would be just fine.

    The team would have the exact same flaws that it has now regardless of how well Harden plays.
     
  16. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    The Rockets were never going to be good at rim protection or rebounding or defense. They were supposed to be great a shooting, though. Unfortunately, they are currently one of the worst teams in the league at shooting, and they are not built to overcome that. That's the biggest issue right now.
     
  17. RasaqBoi

    RasaqBoi Member

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    Dwight Howard drops a diss video to Harden! TMZ Breaking News:

     
    Os Trigonum likes this.
  18. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    Harden walks a fine line between being a distributor for his teammates and scoring for himself. He is still learning this and evolving at the position. One of the bad things about Harden the PG is he can't pass to Harden the SG.

    I like Harden setting the table, but I feel in the long run, for this team to take it to the next level Harden is going to have to get in a "scoring rhythm" earlier, get a lather, so that he is dangerous throughout the game. Rockets are going to need his scoring to close out big games down the road.
     
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  19. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
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    No, they were literally better teams, and we had less rest. That's factual, statistical. Can be proven with math. Your claims about January were baseless because they ignored a fact: we were playing - not just a difficult schedule - but a league-wide news-worthy difficult schedule. It was really an incredible month long schedule, I don't know that I've seen a month that difficult in my 2+ decades as a Rockets fan.

    False, I agreed with Dubose. Harden has needed to improve since the 29th of January, and I explicitly said so.

    My argument for January was that it was stupid to blame it on Harden, and it's true. See my reply to your first quote above.

    As for your point, every player is doing things that are hurting this team. So I assume that's not your point. What you might be saying is it matters more when Harden does it or Harden does it more, which are silly arguments. Please let me know if that's what you mean.

    Good.

    You can say it as much as you like. MDA said the team's effort was bad. It was not directed at Harden. If you want to fabricate that it was about Harden, you are responsible for showing why that's the case. You made something up here. You can believe this for yourself if you like, but you cannot prove it in any way and there is no pattern at all of coaches secretly meaning these things about the best player so I suggest you take it out of your public argument. No value at all, totally made up.

    The schedule was extremely difficult for a month. I said MDA got out coached one game. I'm not sure why you're throwing a b**** fit about this. No goal posts shifted. The month of January ended. As did the last game.

    Honestly, I feel like you misused the "goalposts shifting" thing. Or you don't quite understand it. The reasons we lose are not the same in every loss, that's a childish thing to believe. It's childish to ignore a statistical or factual thing like a schedule. It's really terrible to think you are right about why we are losing, just because we are losing more than our average. There is no logic to what you're arguing.

    Regarding these statements:

    See: significant. Words are used for a reason.

    See: almost. Words are used for a reason.

    Not homerism at all. Once again, you are just participating in reverse homerism.

    Harden is a championship player. His peers, front offices and media do not bring into MVP conversation those who are not championship players.

    His performance is evidence of it, that's why it's relevant. The team's performance is evidence of it too, that's why it's relevant. You would like to ignore this because it doesn't suit your narrative. It doesn't make sense that this team is ranked 3rd in the league with the 14 players built around Harden. But they are, and that is greater evidence that he is a championship player than anything he's ever done. That's not a regular occurrence. Only championship level players do that.

    You are not at all, not even for a second looking at his capabilities. You are only looking at his weaknesses and defining his destiny by them. That is biased, obsessive BS. He is a total player, he is all the good things he does and all the bad, and the average/sum of what he does is MVP-level according to people who ARE concerned with individual and team performance compared to other players in the NBA who have won championships and/or are vying for championships right now. When the media/analysts/peers/GM's say Harden and Westbrook are in the MVP race, they know about Lebron and Curry and Durant too. They are saying something and you are not listening. You are insinuating that his weaknesses are absent from championship level players and that those who call him a non championship level player are right and those who disagree with that are HOMERS!!!

    That's just not realistic. Your analysis can only be rooted on an obsession with Harden's weaknesses. There's no way you are watching the results of him playing and the totality of your criticism of his Rockets is this baloney. Like I said before and I'll say it again, you would be outright fired if you brought this to an organization. You are talking about your biggest net positive, the number one thing bringing wins, the shoulders that the organization is sitting on, the most feared player when we play other teams, one of 2 serious MVP candidates in the NBA and you are obsessed with his weaknesses as if Kevin Durant or Lebron James or Russel Westbrook or Steph Curry don't have weaknesses. There are no players without weaknesses, and your MVP candidate's weakness is unlikely to be the #1 problem of a team starting Capela, Anderson, Ariza and Beverley to compete for a championship.

    Sorry dude, it's just extravagantly wrong.
     
    Patience likes this.
  20. jogo

    jogo Member

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    We shot 22% from 3 last night. 5 players other than Harden shot around FG 33% or worse.
    Harden shot poorly, he's been in a slump, big deal.
    We don't win and lose based on Harden. In recent games we've won when Harden hasn't had to play much or has had an off night.
    Harden's poor shooting is on him. His teammates' poor shooting is on them.
    To win in the playoffs, Harden has to shoot better and so do his teammates.
    This game was lost because we shoot poorly and our defense in the second half was bad. Can't blame that all on Harden.
    Maybe this sparks us to play better in our next 6 tough games.
     
    Patience likes this.

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