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Harden is Creeping up on Hakeem.

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by theimpossibles1, Jan 31, 2018.

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If Harden wins 2 rings and plays 8-10 more yrs with Rockets, is he the greatest Rocket of all time?

  1. Yes

  2. No

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  1. the shark

    the shark Member

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    Tinman I disagree with you......people who truly understand basketball know how great Hakeem was (thus millions of people around the world understand how great he was).

    The people in Houston however were blessed to be able to watch him on a nightly basis.
     
    tinman, Invisible Fan and daywalker02 like this.
  2. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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    like i said, it's arguable. it's not "BS" when you're comparing the defense of 9-time all-defensive FIRST team player to hakeem's defense.
     
  3. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    i guess the comparison you can make is whether harden is close to hakeem level before dream won a ship?
     
    daywalker02 likes this.
  4. bulkatron

    bulkatron Member

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    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22290099/why-lebron-curry-durant-compare-harden-mvp-resume-nba

    "
    According to NBA.com stats, Harden has allowed 0.72 points per possession as an isolation defender this season entering Thursday's win over the San Antonio Spurs, ranking in the league's 82.1 percentile. That makes Harden the stingiest iso defender among the 25 most targeted players this season. By comparison, James and Curry have allowed 1.02 and 1.00 points per possession in isolation, respectively (27.6 and 29.8 percentile).

    Harden has allowed only 0.59 points per post-up possession, ranking in the 91.9 percentile. Memphis Grizzlies center Marc Gasol, a former Defensive Player of the Year, is the only defender allowing fewer points per post-up among the 51 players who have guarded at least 50 such possessions."

    Respect. Harden is the second greatest to ever wear the Rockets uniform. He has a few years to overtake the best.
     
  5. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    My Houston people remark was for another reason than what you think
     
  6. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    Dream took the rockets to the finals in his second year
    He was a starter and a beast
     
  7. the shark

    the shark Member

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    When it comes to Defense, there isn't a GM (past or present), NBA players (past or present), or NBA Scout (past or present) who would pick Jordan over Dream. So yes some ignorant person as yourself could argue about it all day long but it will never make it a fact and therefore it is BS.
     
  8. cheshire

    cheshire Contributing Member

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    One of Dream's team mate once said that Dream had a better chance of scoring with two or three guys hanging on him than passing to an open guy. Beard is unreal offensively and his numbers are insane, I'm not sure he can pull this off.

    Props to Beard to being in the conversation.
     
  9. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    The ole "yeah but can he handle dough?" He faced up and took defenders off the dribble all the time either for the drive around or the stop and pop or to flow into a beautiful post fadeaway which could counter into several different moves.

    But this whole handles topic is silly to me. Hardly anyone today creates any separation with their fancy dribbles. It's like when people would say "Kobe got more handles than Jordan!" MJ didn't need fancy handles, he had strong hands and incredible anticipation to know when and where to attack long before you could read the play. But..Kobe can dribble between the legs backwards as he wastes 15 seconds of the shot clock before settling for a really deep 3? Good for him. Harden can dribble between his legs and wobble his head side to side before taking a side step for a deep 3?
    Any NBA great of the past can learn whatever moves you see today. Most of the moves all have their origins from past decades too. So, yeah any former NBA player can learn and adapt with ample time to train. Most of all Hakeem. This is a guy who came out so late and raw and trained his way to being one of the most dangerous post players and all around offensive and defensive bigs ever. If you are his coach and want him to learn how to do fancy dribbles, he'll do it. If you want him to train to become a decent 3 point shooter to stretch the floor even more than mid range. He'll do it. But, you as coach will be watching from tv when a smarter coach uses Hakeem the right way and wins rings.

    Don't even bother mentioning Draymond in the same breath as the DREAM again. He's nothing new. He'd be Anthony Mason in the 90s. A poor mans Barkley. Todays crop of PF/C hybrids that handle and stretch the floor are from years of kids evolving watching their favorite players. KG, CWebb, Shareef, hell, even young Duncan and Dirk could handle the ball and go the full length. Man, even Shaq and Admiral too. They just weren't allowed that freedom as much as you see today.
     
  10. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    There is no right or wrong. Hakeem is a GOAT defensively for his position as is MJ. Comparing their defensive duties is not that simple.

    You could just as well argue 2 perimeter players as devastating and suffocating as Pip and MJ for defense on 1 team could be better than 1 dominant paint defender. In the end, you need your entire team to do their job. Hakeem or MJ would probably look bad defensively if their teammates were 2018 Isiah Thomas and 2016 Harden.
     
  11. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Todays NBA stats are like NFL QBs of today in a pass happy, soft defensive league being compared to QBs of the past in a run heavy, smash mouth league.
     
    Lemonte likes this.
  12. sTeKcOr22

    sTeKcOr22 Member

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    Watched a few clips of bigs of old, mainly Hakeem, Ewing, Barkley, Webber, Shaq, and Admiral.

    While all seemed to have the ball handlings skills to at least bring the ball up court, Olajuwon was the only one who seemed quick enough on his feet to where his offensive repertoire would still be devastating in today's NBA. Ewing seemed like he was lumbering in the paint with a highly efficient post game and hook shot, Barkley had the range and size to where he might be a 3/4 hybrid(like Draymond in a sense), clips of Webber/Admiral didn't show much range, but both were great in the high post plus Webber was a very capable slasher for his size, and Shaq was just too big to the point where it wouldn't make sense to bring him out beyond 5 feet from the basket.

    Maybe versatility always existed, but seems like the NBA is so perimeter oriented to where the big man doesn't have as much of a influence on offense as they used to.
     
  13. SuperKev

    SuperKev Contributing Member

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    Dream's Quadruple double, one of only 4. Championships happen every year - a QD hasn't happened in 24 years. If JH can get a QD then he will get mythical status.
     
  14. swyyyguy

    swyyyguy Member

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    Harden had 22 points on 7-of-10 shooting in the quarter. That set a franchise record for points in a quarter, breaking Hakeem Olajuwon's mark of 18 set against the Utah Jazz on May 5, 1995.
     
  15. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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  16. Asian Sensation

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    On a scale of McGrady (zero) to Olajuwon (100) .... Harden would score about a 35.
     
    tinman likes this.
  17. TheRealist137

    TheRealist137 Member

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    Hakeem demanded a trade out of Houston already
     
  18. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    But what happened? he signed the contract and won 2 championships

    the poll shows if Harden wins two rings, he hasn't come close.
     
  19. HardenVolumeOne

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    james harden has led the nba in win shares 5 times, vorp 4 times, has a higher career win shares per 48, higher career bpm, higher everything except rings. Trust me i love hakeem like the rest of us, but harden as a rocket has had more than 10 games better than hakeems best as a rocket. I mean even in the playoffs

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/game_score.html

    how many times does hakeem appear on this list

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_per_48_career.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/bpm_career.html

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_career.html

    Harden has played only 8 seasons as a starter and will probably end up passing hakeem in career win shares in the next 2 or 3 years

    bruh i can keep going all day with this.
     
  20. tinman

    tinman Contributing Member
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    leave Fake Rockets fan
    @Clutch
     

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