Harden fixed his turnovers issue by getting more assists but the TO's are still a problem

Did you not say this...

You said this in response to Nook's claim that the Rockets have less talent than Cleveland and Golden State. It's not a big deal, though. Because I know that you don't honestly believe what you said there. But you did say it, so you should own up to it.

 

Dude, can you read? They is the Dubs, Spurs, etc.

 

WOW!

Rocket River

 

Basically
For the Rockets to compete with the Teams with 3 Stars/All stars on them
WE MUST DEMAND HARDEN BE PERFECT!!1

Rocket River

 

You know........one thing that hasn't changed while the league has undergone this period of extreme change?

It's staring you right in the face.

And that is the FACT that only one player has ever won a championship while averaging over 4 turnovers a game in the playoffs. Magic in 1980. And he was barely over.....in the first season of the three-point era when the three ball wasn't used very often, and his team played at a pace that yielded 8-10 more possessions per game that this current Rocket team.

Think about that for a moment. Why hasn't that changed? You think is meaningless? It's just meaningless data point? Why hasn't it changed while the league has undergone tremendous change?

It's very simple, Nook. Very simple. The reason is teams that make it deep into the playoffs have to be very efficient teams. They are usually evenly matched talent wise. And they're playing 7 games against one another so they are able to exploit everything to the nth degree.

In the 3-point era (since 79-80) the top teams have progressively shot more and more threes as it slowly dawned on them the efficiency of that shot over the long 2 and the better spacing it gave their drivers. All that means is every field goal attempt is worth even more points both ways.

And that funnels right down to turnovers. Because every turnover is worth two field goal attempts. It's a field goal attempt not taken and it's an extra field goal attempt given to the opponent.

That's huge. It's huge in the playoffs and the Finals. And that is why turnover count in championship players hasn't really exploded upward like 3-point shooting has. And it's not going to either. Not on championship teams and true championship contenders.

There's a reason why LeBron is clamoring for a playmaker. Look at his turnovers. Put it into perspective. Here's the best player in the league, one of the top 3 playmakers in the league wanting a playmaker who will no doubt take the ball out of LeBron's own hands for a good bunch of possessions. But that's what LeBron wants. Why? Because LeBron understands the need for multiple playmakers today. He can feel opponents crushing him and turning him over more frequently. And he knows and understands the power of those turnovers in the playoffs and Finals.

Player turnovers are a bellwether indicator of championship capability. You should study what I'm saying instead of throwing up a cheap argument that everything is changing in today's game. The changes taking place only make turnovers more critical.

 

I hate that argument that Hardens TOs don't mean as much because as a team Houston isn't turning it over much. A good portion of Hardens TOs are leading to extremely easy fast break points for the other team. Hell The Bucks scored 7 straight off 3 straight TOs from him. If he's going to continue to turn it over at this rate he needs to get back on D every time and get stops.

 

Check out @AWAWBlog's Tweet:



Here's how you throw a touchdown pass.

 

nope

 

Looks like this thread got ugly after page 3 (like every other thread always and forever) so i'll just post this here and if someone's already addressed it then nvrmnd

http://www.fanragsports.com/nba/james-harden-russell-westbrook-dont-turnover-problem/

For how much they handle the ball, neither of these guys turns the ball over an obscene amount.

 

This is an absolutely fantastic article and it truly deserves its own thread and recognition for the work out into it.

 

Yeah Zach Lowe and Kevin Arnovitz talked about at the end of his podcast this week. Saying both Harden and Westbrook turnovers are where they probably realistically should be with the amount they have the ball and that it isn't too much to deal with.

 

Sorry it was the Lowe Post podcast with Howard Beck not the Kevin Arnovitz one.

 

League Average TOV% : 12.8

Westbrook TOV% : 16.2

Harden TOV% : 20.1

Both are very turnover prone even when accounting for their number of possessions, but especially Harden is egregiously bad.

 

True.

What's bad is for how much they handle the ball they make the team one-dimensional and thereby very unlikely to win a championship.

Games are won and lost in 48 minutes of team play. And the occasional overtime. Not in number of turnovers per dribble. A turnover is a turnover is a turnover is a turnover is a turnover is a turnover. Doesn't matter whether you dribble 10 times or 0 times. It's still a turnover and turnovers are game events that cost your team a shot and give your opponent an extra shot. So if one player dribbles 500 times in the game and turns it over 7 times and another player takes 3 dribbles and turns it over once a game, there's still a 6 turnover disparity there. The dude with the 7 turnovers has to score 14 points above the player that turned it over once just to be even in plus minus without any other considerations. (I'm being very basic here. It's actually a lot more than that.)

So basically this article doesn't mean doodoo in terms of winning and losing. It's simply an attempt to rationalize high turnover count in terms of ball handling time....which means zero in terms of winning.

 

I like how you switched accounts to like your own posts. Smart

 

Damn we got joomba and _holic back to back. Now missing the other tool bobbythefail

We'd have the holy trifecta of bobbythejoombafailaholic

 

Why you always so bitter Joomba .. I mean Jopat?

 

another 1:1 AST/TOV ratio game for James. A great playmaker obviously