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Harden disinterested and at half court when Chris ran the offense

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by LosPollosHermanos, May 25, 2019.

  1. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

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    This isn't news to me... I've longed noticed his mannerisms on the court. Things like holding his hands up and jogging back after a no call, looking at others when others gives up a basket with disdain, and never STFU when PJ or CP3 tries to help him on defensive assignments... It's been alarming for a while..
     
  2. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    This is false of course. MDA has said that he's not only about 7 seconds, he is about what works, and that this suits the roster. Talked about it at the Sloan conference a few years back too.

    Kevin Durant wants to ISO more and the Warriors don't just give in to that. That hasn't stopped Durant from winning titles. Without Curry? He has done exactly what Harden has done: lost to Warriors in 7 games.

    They have catered the offense to what Harden does best, and it has worked. We have been a top 3 offense for years. The problem is what the offense does on the other plays. Their Clint Capela can hit 3's and run the fastbreak. Their Chris Paul can drain 6+ 3's a game.

    Yes Harden can do better in this example. That's not why we haven't won a championship. We haven't won a championship because our roster is not as good as the teams who go on to win it, and because we don't know what the F to do if Harden isn't full of energy and killing it. We should not be this close to winning a title. Harden is a major reason we are this close to winning a title. We can win titles with Harden making mistakes or having character flaws. All champions make mistakes and have character flaws. Curry disappears often and is a poor defender. Durant gets selfish. Lebron doesn't play defense.

    Any player who is winning rings right now has flaws and has better sidekicks. You DON'T want to nudge Harden towards emulating them, because the logical solution to him winning a ring as a key contributor is unlikely to involve the Rockets.
     
  3. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I think Harden's style of play forces rosters to adapt a play style of absolutely zero ball movement. It's a very deep negative for an otherwise perennial MVP candidate.

    You should be willing to at least condede to that other wise you just seem like an irrational fan.
     
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  4. leebigez

    leebigez Contributing Member

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    This is ridiculous logic. You know what makes the Warriors awesome even without KD? Steph being part of plays even when he's not. One poster called it spot on, gravity. Setting a solid pick, being in the play is vital to getting other guys good shots. When Harden is dancing with the ball, CP3 is waiting, setting picks, hitting guys in the nads, something
     
  5. ksny15

    ksny15 Member

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    I don't disagree with you at all when it comes to other superstars doing the ISO. But one of your sentences is KEY. The Warriors don't let KD ISO every time like he would want to. They don't let a player become bigger than the team. Houston on the other hand caters to James Harden. He has reigns to ISO all game. It just won't work to beat the best during the playoffs.

    And of course all stars do run ISO plays. The difference is when they don't have the ball they are still I'm the play. Harden is not. That is the major issue here. I don't see Durant, Curry or LBJ just chilling back behind the ball. They are setting screens, moving around bust most importantly drawing a defender toward them so it isn't 4 vs 5.

    And yes this roster doesn't have talent like GSW or the Bucks. But I do think they are better than a lot of people here think. I honestly believe that Hardens game forces his teammates to play with this zero movement offense. It can be hard to find a rhythm when you don't touch the ball for a few plays. At the end of the day we are nothing without James. Noone here should say otherwise. But to think we couldn't be even better or maybe even get over the hump if he changed his ways a little bit? That isn't an absurd or unrealistic take.
     
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  6. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Exactly. It's completely reasonable to believe that this team wouldn't be anywhere near relevant without Harden yet at the same time Harden has some uniquely glaring deficiencies for a player of his level.
     
  7. Rhay1

    Rhay1 Member

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    Has Harden ever come off a screen and shot the ball without dribbling? Has any player received an assist after passing to him?
     
  8. dmoneybangbang

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    Well because they have Curry, Thompson, and Draymond Green. It's not just the best we have to beat, but historically the best. Even though Harden can do more lets not underestimate the Warriors.
     
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  9. Ziggy

    Ziggy 99ers STAND BY
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    Whatever the reason might be, Harden's inability to contribute when CP3 runs the offense is a failure on someone's part. There's no denying that.

    Playing 4on4 is actually an advantage to the offense but Harden is the best offensive player in the league. Someone needs to get of their ass and figure it out.
     
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  10. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I do not believe that he is unique among superstars in his inability to exit his own bias by himself.

    Harden's style of play requires very little of the teammates around him. You can irrationally look at that positively or negatively. The truth is, like everything, it's both positive and negative.

    I think what you want is for everything good Harden does to remain constant - including minutes, attacking the rim, new-found defense, rebounding, deflections, ability to hit contested shots - but you also want him to move off the ball now.

    There's only so much you can overclock a CPU or supercharge a car before it's going to overheat and malfunction. Unlike cars and computers, this system doesn't have an endless cooling system. We are at the limit. Whatever you ask Harden to do now, it means energy has to be lost elsewhere. The system is maxed out. It's not the vehicle you think it is, nor has anyone ever been that vehicle save for 1 or 2 miraculous titles in NBA history.

    Harden is not the problem. If anything, Harden is right. For the organization to tell him that more can be achieved with this roster is a joke. I would laugh in their face. I would tell them that they are not reflecting on how much of the problem is on them and instead they are picking on the most productive individual in the entire Rockets organization.

    Durant, Lebron and Curry did not find magic. They just got better teams, and with better teammates their coaches were able to install better layers to the offense.
     
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  11. dmoneybangbang

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    Steph doesn't have to run an offense because he's surrounded people who can share that burden due to skills and system.

    I agree that "your turn, my turn" basketball between CP3 and Harden needs to evolve into something else.
     
    HP3 likes this.
  12. rocketmc

    rocketmc Member

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    the rockets roster was better in game 5 and 6 in conference final and they couldnt get it done.
     
  13. Blackjack84

    Blackjack84 Member

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    Dont believe nothing that comes out of jalen roses mouth he claimed to have inside info and never told us any inside info he just be running his mouth to feel important
     
  14. rocketmc

    rocketmc Member

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    next year rockets will have no chance of title. all the teams will get better and since they fired the defensive coach, they'll probably be 6 or 7th seed
     
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  15. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    No they weren't, you had just forgotten how good the Warriors are without Kevin Durant. In fact, I had a whole thread about this on the eve of Game 5 and have been resisting the urge to bump it because it's filled with people who had an irrational perception of how the game was going to go.

    The Warriors without Durant and with Curry - i.e. with depleted bench - are something like 33-4. Do you think it's a coincidence that their winning rate without Durant works out to exactly - wait for it - 73 wins in an 82 games season?
     
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  16. Blurr#7

    Blurr#7 Contributing Member

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    Or could it be the other “star” player doesn’t show up until game 6 or is injured?
     
    #36 Blurr#7, May 25, 2019
    Last edited: May 25, 2019
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  17. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    yea .. its Harden Fault
    He should have been crashing the boards and getting rebounds cause no f*cking body else seemed interested in them
    and
    Then if he did not get them
    He should SPRINT BACK to get ahead of people . ..from under the goal . . . to catch people sprinting from the three point line
    and then block their shots. . . and pick up the lose ball

    Rocket River
    We lost because
    1. Rebound
    2. MDA cannot manage a bench
    3. Bench not stepping up
    4. Turnovers
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    '
    Harden
     
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  18. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    Agree. This is not on Harden.

    Emphatically disagree. Durant and Lebron are routinely late to get back on defense and jog up on offense. Curry doesn't have that problem, but he has problems that Harden doesn't have.

    Again disagree. The Warriors are on a 73-win pace without Kevin Durant over these few years. Warriors are in another stratosphere. They essentially have two teams - an elite ISO team and an elite ball movement team and they can bring out whichever they want whenever they want. We have been competitive with that.
     
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  19. mike2k132

    mike2k132 Member

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    I have to agree with math on the one. Until I see a team beat gsw without 3 or 2 allstars, it's just simple. Give harden prime kyrie n love....give him prime klay n dray n kd.....people the only person that's beat them has matched them in equal talent. That's facts. Even the bucks have 2 allstar now. Something a harden team doesnt have....just stack it up Toronto Boston Portland bucks 76ers pretty much all the top teams have more talent then the rockets.

    Team him up with 1 or 2 allstars in their prime n he has 2 ships by now. Facts
     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    This is ridiculous selectivity. Curry plays with a DPOY candidate who averages 7+ assists and a secondary scorer who can put up 30.

    It amazes me that people **** on making shooters stand in the corner, then they turn around and say the reason we are not the Warriors is because Harden is not standing in the corner. Make up your mind.
     
    HP3 likes this.

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