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Harden deserves criticism but let's not forget

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Dec 30, 2015.

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The Harden ERA is significantly better than

  1. The Tracy McGrady "it's on me" era

    35 vote(s)
    32.1%
  2. The Steve Francis "superbowl" era

    62 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. The Yao Ming "eat the head" era

    12 vote(s)
    11.0%
  1. mkahanek

    mkahanek Member

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    That will be tough until root cause is found. Is root cause a physical out of shape, or has the league adapted to him and he needs to polish his skills. OR is the problem upstairs in his head. A head problem could be he doesn't care. OR it could be his confidence has been damaged by last years game 2 and 5 performances.

    So how do you go about solving an issue when you don't know the root cause?
     
  2. kjayp

    kjayp Member

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    Deckard I think you are a good poster here on the site. I typically like what you have to say - it's usually well thought out and even handed...

    My question to you is - at what point can we declare a player on our team to be the turd in the punchbowl that he is without being told we are 'rooting for the wrong team' or a 'bad fan...' ?

    For me, I've reached the point with James where I feel his personal agenda has obviously taken priority over the best interests of the team. The partying before and after games, the lack of focus and the overall dgaf attitude have pushed me to the edge.

    As a Rockets fan for over 3 decades, I am not married to any particular player. I have been a supporter since before james harden was born and I will be a supporter long after James Harden has left. It infuriates me to watch a player, any player, give less than his best effort. If a player is struggling or in the midst of a shooting slump - I don't rag... but lack of effort I cannot excuse...
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    . . . and if we do . . . you will then say . . Well Jason Terry was the true leader
    or some such

    Rocket River
     
  4. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    Steve Francis - BROUGHT IT EVERY NIGHT . . .but people hated him because he was low 'basketball iq'
    TMAC - Had High IQ . . . . but people hated him because he was a quitter and heartless
    YAO - High IQ , Brought it . . .. but he was injury prone
    Now We have Harden . . . doesn't bring it every night . . .what else can we at to his list?

    Rocket River
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. mkahanek

    mkahanek Member

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    3 decades myself. I agree. Lack of effort is not excusable. A LOT of people in those stands put forth max effort at their jobs to come sit in that seat and cheer their team on. For someone to go out and put forth some s*** effort when they make many times the amount of money the fans make is rotten.

    That said. There is hope. After all #34 didn't win our hearts until he went from AKEEM to HAKEEM. That epiphany transformed him in to the MAN that lead us to two titles. MAYBE Harden will have that aha moment. But, I find it unlikely as long as he is hitting bars and hanging with Khole Karnivoresian
     
  6. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    NEEDS
    • Needs a "good" head coach to motivate him & push him
    • Needs to play ON the ball at all times
    • Needs the guard next to him to a) be able to hit the 3pt shot b) play defense for his man and his own man
    • Needs the forward next to him to a) be able to hit the 3pt shot b) play defense for his man and his own man
    • Needs a good center to help cover for when the guards blow by the perimeter
    • Needs legit summer basketball(Olympics/Team USA?) to stay in basketball shape

    .....
     
  7. Drogba

    Drogba Member

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    When Harden finally gets IT I'm going to enjoy bumping these threads. Tinman is a true Rockets fan he supports the team through good & bad. He doesn't jump ship when a player who just had an MVP caliber season goes through his first bad period.

    It's also hilarious Harden haters keep bringing up that Game 6 where Josh Smith & Corey Brewer balled out. What about Game 5 where he had a triple double and his 31 point performance in Game 7? He had zero part to play in those games either?

    He also had 3 superstar games in the WCF where he comfortably outplayed Steph Curry. Where were Dwight and Josh Smith in that series?

    He was excellent throughout the playoffs really apart from 2 disastrous games which were as bad as T-Mac's normal performances in the post-season. Unfair to hold that over him when his haters claimed his game doesn't translate into the post-season & we wouldn't get out the first round.
     
  8. Phreak3

    Phreak3 Member

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    This is a good list and not unreasonable. btw, half of these "needs" are the same for Steph Curry as well.
     
  9. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    the only time you'd ever be able to bump threads like these in spite is if Harden is able to win a championship as the best player. Bc aside from actually winning an MVP, that's the only thing left that can really establish him as a great player to show he's really that good
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Nope, I will be happy as a clam to admit I was wrong, but his mentality to date is not a winners mentality.

    You want to know what JB was talking about with CORE issues, it was James Harden.

    DD
     
  11. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    That's my position as well. Harden has faults, but he is one of the best in the game. The key is to maximize him. Maximize him with coaching and the right mix of role players.

    Also, a strong coaching hire will be very key in the future with Free Agency recruiting.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    I think we haven't really figured out Harden yet. He is clearly a smart player. He has the physical tools. He has the skills. He is not tunnel vision like Francis. But he still holds the ball too damn long. In that sense, he's like Francis. TMac had a higher IQ than him at this point. He needs to make quicker decision.

    Is he a quitter like TMac? It's hard to tell at this time. I hope he is not. But we held on to TMac too long after we found out his flaws. All in all, among our former stars, TMac is the closest comparison in terms of talent and character.

    I think comparing him to 1992 Hakeem is wrong. IIRC Hakeem was dogging it mostly due to his issues with the FO. He had always played on both ends of the floor with effort. There is no apparent issues with Harden and the organization.
     
  13. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    As bad as T-Mac's normal post season play? IIRC T-Mac had #3 highest PPG average in his playoff career after he left the Rockets behind only Iverson and of course MJ at 28.5ppg. Almost 30ppg as a the #1 option for Orl and Houston. Consider also the terribly slow pace we played in Houston those first JVG years too.
    Nah...T-Mac always brought it. The loss to Dallas was on the whole team and coaching's lack of preparation. But, we were never going to win with Ryan Bowen as our starting PF. We would have been swept without T-mac. The first loss to Utah was on Yao. That Game 7 was all on Yao. Love the big fella, but he gave up like 5 offensive rebounds to boozer and harpring in the final crucial minutes. Yao was outrebounded by not just Boozer and Okur, but Matt freaking Harpring in that game. The 2nd loss to Utah? No Yao. T-Mac 40,10 and 5 in the final game 6 blowout while his no stats all intangibles teammates brought no intangibles along with sub 30% shooting.

    I love how people want to compare these current and past few years Rockets stacked rosters to Yao and T-macs garbage rosters. I guarantee 25 year old T-Mac replacing Harden would have this roster better than only 17 wins and NINETEEN ****ING LOSSES IN JANUARY. WCF trip doesn't mean **** if we go right back to MEDIOCRITY the next season. It means it was a godamn FLUKE and there was no way to sustain that level of play.
     
  14. tinman

    tinman Member
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    Speaking of the T-Mac era,

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Apparently T-Mac is always the first to go fishing, he might as well own Red Lobster
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    100% agree.

    DD
     
  16. tinman

    tinman Member
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    Winner Winner chicken dinner
     
  17. Handles

    Handles Member

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    Just waiting for the day when James shaves the beard AND head.

    Prioritizes the game.
    Shaves the MVB.
    Becomes the true MVP.
    Is hairless and loved.

    Real talk - I hope harden turns things around. He has all the talent in the world which is why you DONT trade him like some fans here want to do. You just hold on to him, give him all the tools you can for him to succeed, and hope that he stops sleepwalking and puts more energy into leading our team and earning Ws.
     
  18. Tfor3

    Tfor3 Member

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    Yep. Plus he is developing a pretty deadly midrange game- I pretty much know it's going in once it leaves his hands. He does need to share the ball early in shot clock, cut down the dribbling and stop trying to bounce pass bt two defenders which usually ends in a turnover.
     
  19. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    Tmac, even Franchise had more explosion, athleticism than Harden.

    Harden can dunk for sure, but it is his skills that set him apart from other good players. And durabilty for sure.
     
  20. eman

    eman Member

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    Let's not forget those 13 TOs, that perfect example of the Peter Principle.
     

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