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Harden deserves criticism but let's not forget

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, Dec 30, 2015.

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The Harden ERA is significantly better than

  1. The Tracy McGrady "it's on me" era

    35 vote(s)
    32.1%
  2. The Steve Francis "superbowl" era

    62 vote(s)
    56.9%
  3. The Yao Ming "eat the head" era

    12 vote(s)
    11.0%
  1. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The next coaching hire is going to be very important. The Rockets need to hire a very strong coach like Thibs. It is obvious that Harden needs structure. We saw how well Harden responded to Thibs and Coach K last off season.
     
  2. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Harden didn't deliver anything. The team did. I'd say Dwight had more of an impact on the playoff success last year than Harden. Harden did have an amazing regular season though.
     
  3. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Harden is not the best player to play for the Rockets since Olajuwon. He's on the best teams that we've had since Olajuwon. That's the difference. I'd take Yao or T-Mac over Harden any day. Given the right team and coaching discipline, i might even take Stevie over Harden in this point guard driven league.
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Well, then you are wrong.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Yao is a far greater player than Harden.

    DD
     
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  6. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Meh..if it were flipped and T-Mac was on this team now and Harden was long gone, you'd be defending T-Mac. It's a what have you done for me lately world afterall.

    Harden will abandon this city the first chance he gets. Ride off into the LA sunset.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    And for those of you following at home, this is from the same Big Gulp of EmoBabble that thought Von Wafer was a future superstar.
     
  8. Rio Rocket

    Rio Rocket Member

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    theyre both great players
     
  9. Caesar

    Caesar Member

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    Nearly every Rocket fan on these boards overhype our role players. Always have and always will. Our scrubs on the bench are untouchable according to Rockets fans. SO MUCH POTENTIAL.

    I'm sure every teams fanbase is the same.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Hah, once again you exaggerate - I wanted him to play- not that he was a superstar. Of course Morey did say he had elite athleticism....

    :)

    Expecting context from a Sam Fisher post is like wanting Harden to pass early in the shot clock, it is not going to happen.

    DD
     
  11. Rio Rocket

    Rio Rocket Member

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    i have only noticed dmo and thornton getting hype on these boards
     
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Hah. Here's your context:


    Note, this took all of 3 seconds to look up, and I had no direct recollection of it, but I was sure it was there. There's probably even worse, and I'm not counting the "Aaron Brooks and Chase Budinger are future alpha dog franchise players" moment.

    An introspective person would probably read the above and take a lesson from it....but not our DD.
     
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  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Wow...I could not disagree more. Yao was never, ever, never an MVP candidate or even in that range. He never finished closer than even 12. And he damn well couldn't stay healthy enough to really matter. He was never the kind of player that could take you to the next level.

    I honestly can't believe you actually believe that.
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Meh, a moment of fandom.

    Now VSpan he would have been a star.

    When healthy (and that is a big when) Yao impacted the game on both ends of the floor and was more of a team oriented super star player.

    I would take a healthy Yao over Harden every day of the week.

    DD
     
  15. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    Ok...if you say so. I think we're talking about 2 entirely different players. Yao was not a superstar...he was never better than a top 12 or so player in the league in any one season. He was an all star...and that's it...and even that was helped by who he was internationally.

    But saying "when healthy" with regard to Yao is like saying "when Jewish" with regard to the Pope. Comparing a guy who plays as many minutes as Harden is asked to do with a guy who was on minutes restrictions by the time he was 31 is a joke. Being there when it matters matters.

    Were you saying these things about Harden at all last season? I'm more interested in that context than the Von Wafer comments.
     
  16. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Yeah, I never thought of him as a Superstar player until last year, when he came in actually playing defense - which if you recall hurt his offensive numbers so he stopped playing Defense and went back to the saloon door on D approach but getting his numbers.

    Harden seems to be more interested in being famous than burning to win - that is the impression I get - which is very Tmac-ish and disconcerting TBH.

    IMHO - he needs someone on the bench (Coach) with a big personality and able to hold him accountable, otherwise - even Hubie Brown said he had a talk with him when he was in college about effort....and that is coming up again.

    If this is all we get from Harden, it is enough, but we need a leader on the floor that takes charge and makes him Robin - he is not a batman.

    DD
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Posted this in last night's game thread and then saw this one, where I would have put it had I seen it beforehand. I've left out the first sentence, mentioning studogg was right in his post, and you were, well, not right. So here you are, DD:

    When you've decided that a player just isn't what you like, for whatever reason or reasons, you stick to your opinion regardless of what anyone else says. You'll nitpick everything that can possibly bug you about the guy and never let up. Sorry, but it's true. Harden is a good passer. Sometimes, he's a brilliant one. Yes, he turns the ball over too much, sometimes way too much, but it isn't always his fault. Like any player playing point, teammates may not make the proper rotation and be out of position. They can fumble catching the pass, which is still labeled a turnover by the passer. And I'll add this - some of Harden's turnovers don't involve passing at all. It's due to being double and sometimes triple teamed by the other team's best defenders, leading to the ball being poked out of his hands. No pass at all, DD, but a Harden turnover.

    You get obsessed with a player's flaws once you've decided to "turn" on him. You focus on those flaws, regardless of the things the player excels at, or improves upon. And worse, you play dirty to sully the player you've decided to be against. How? Harden's a perfect example. You didn't hesitate to compare him to Jeremy Lin, an absurdity. You didn't hesitate to compare him to McGrady, a vastly different player who played another position, and you made both comparisons knowing that equating those two ex-Rockets to Harden is an incendiary accusation on this board, one even many of those angry at Harden wouldn't have dreamed of making. And you don't give up. You don't quit. I'm expecting a comparison equating James to Scottie Pippen next. Sorry, but I've watched you do this stuff here for years. You're a passionate fan of the Rockets. You know a lot about the game and often make excellent comments about our team. This peccadillo of yours bothers me because it demeans you, in my humble opinion, and conflicts with all the good things you bring to the BBS.

    Just food for thought. Sorry if my post bothers you. Maybe I have too much time on my hands this morning. My significant other is attempting to make vegan chili, and the mere thought of tasting it has me cringing inside. For some bizarre reason, it made me think of you. For that, I apologize. You don't deserve to be associated with the coming abomination!
     
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  18. Rio Rocket

    Rio Rocket Member

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    vegan chili = spicy beans

    dont be a spicy beans hater
     
  19. mkahanek

    mkahanek Member

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    I just can't figure James out. One game he shows glimpses of last year. Another game he throws passes like he bet on the game. Other games I think we need to get a stethoscope and see if there is anything beating in his chest.

    Sometimes I wonder if Harden just doesn't care. Or he wants someone gone, or he wants out of Houston.
     
  20. RudyT43

    RudyT43 Member

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    Harden has transcendent basketball ability. Harden has played like an MVP for us. Harden brought us to the Western Conference Finals.

    All three of those facts are indisputable. The problem is, there seems to be a regression this year. The biggest place I can see this is in late game situations. Harden would consistently close games out for us by dominating anyone who dared guard him ISO. This year, maybe due to a statistical regression to the mean or that he most likely is not in the same shape he was in at this point last season, he is not getting it done.

    Harden is a top 10 Rocket of all time, but something needs to change. Either he adjusts his game, or we build a team tailor made to his specifications.
     

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