You know, maybe the Romans and Greeks had it right. To win a war, you wipe out the enemy. At least there is no disputing victory, or how they went about it. Our modern morality is hindering our ability to make and win wars. That is a good thing, right? Even though people die, far less of them are dying, and to be clear civilians have been targeted in almost all warfare throughout the ages, just ask the citizens of Dresden, or London, or Nagasaki. War just sucks, for everyone !! And the new rules make it difficult to get a clear victory. Maybe we should just stop making war ! DD
Last I checked, abortion was still legal in this country and supported by the majority. Even gay rights gets substantial aupport. You kinda forgot to mention what group of people Americans feel they're at war with, where those people get support from, what nations are antagonistic towards us, what the religious right believes about Jews and Israel, and how a considerable percentage of Americans actually do have very consistent views with Israeli views (even supporting gay rights and abortion). It's ridiculous to try to make this argument, apparently to try to drive a wedge between 2 peoples that have close ties for a number of reasons. To ignore reasons those while making your argument does not change the reality. If you had just left this at how some or many Americans hold common values as most Arabs and Muslims it would have been positive. As it is, it is negative and unhelpful.
That was a horrible attack that killed 3 Palestinian children. Abbas sound like a voice of reason, at least partially holding the mortar-firing militants who were the target partially responsible. But at some point the threat to innocent civilians is too great and this sounds like one instance. Israel's Channel 2 TV News: the raid was "another failed assassination attempt, and again innocent civilians were hit." http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/729271.html Very sad.
You make some fair points and I'm going to have to apologize for not going into them in more detail. I think we both agree to an extent that neither party are necessarily acting morally. You give more of an edge to the Israelis but I'm glad you recognize that being the more powerful of the parties they have the ability to fight somewhat cleaner. I recognize that but given the enormous disparity in power I don't believe that Israel's methods make them more moral. Beyond just debating how moral certain tactics are though I question the morality of the overall strategies of each side. The rightwing Israelis attempt to hold onto the occupied territories I don't believe is moral nor are extremists Palestinian views that Israel should be driven into the sea. The reasonable and moral compromise is for Israel to withdraw to 1967 borders and divide Jerusalem on a basis that allows both sides to keep their religious sites. Surprisingly most opinion polls among Palestinians and Israelis show that majorities on both side want that sort of solution. The problem mutual distrust and paranoia allow militants on both sides to hold that sort of compromise possible. Morality by definition means knowing what is right and doing it. The cycle of brutality that the Israelis and Palestinians are locked into isn't moral for either since most of their people know what should be done for peace yet are unwilling to do so.
WMD, terrorism and an interconnected interdependent World make such things more difficult. When the Romans plowed Corinth to the ground there as no other powerful countries to be shocked by it or ones that wouldn't trade with the Romans or form a coalition to oppose the Romans. Embittered Greeks didn't have the tools to become effective terrorists or create WMD to use on the Romans. Hijacking some wagons and running them into the Pantheon just wouldn't have the same effect as a dirty bomb or crashing commercial airplanes into buildings
You must've missed the part where I said "US social conservatives". I was pointing out the differences in regard to social attitudes between US social conservatives and Israelis. For that matter I also acknowledged there are many reasons, cultural and others, why Americans feel closer to Israelis. Why is it ridiculous or unhelpful to make a critical analysis of why we seem to have a bias towards Israel and why the basis of that bias might not be so sound? The only reason this would be percieved as being negative or unhelpful is if you believe we should continue to be biased towards Israel in regard to their conflict with the Palestinians. In that case rather than just calling criticism of it as negative and unhelpful argue why that is so.
