Was part of that legitimacy allowing the other terror groups to operate freely with Hamas basically supporting it in their words and inaction? How can Hamas claim to be under truce while not holding others to that truce? At least Fatah tried to reign in all the militant groups for a truce. Hamas can't even keep a straight face when they say the word. Meanwhile, their all training for attacks and just waiting for an excuse to get back into the violence. And, all this time their expecting no reprisal attacks from Israel? Come on.
understood But there's been no real attack on Israel by any of these groups since Hamas took control of the government right? I just don't understand Israel's thinking about how this attack was going to help the process thats all.
Well, there was a suicide bomber who attacked an Israeli target a few weeks ago. Hamas came out with a statement which basically praised the attack. That was a "real" attack with government support. So, that didn't exactly help the process, either. Neither side is very good at helping the process. I agree with you on that. The democratic vote the US was so keen on getting for the Palestinians resulted in the people voting a terrorist organization into government who has no intention in dealing with the Israeli government whom they do not recognize. How does that help? That's like shooting yourself in the foot. In the end, it must mean that Palestinians really don't want peace. They basically voted against it or did so unwittingly. They may have been thinking about the "good" side of Hamas in support of the people as far as charity and what-have-you. But, the "bad" side of Hamas is one who basically has the support of Al Qaeda, doesn't recognize or want to enter into any discussions with the Israeli government, and throws tantrums when their funding is cut off because they want to operate a resistance, terror government with Western funding. Fat chance in hell of that happening. The only way Hamas or any of these people on that side will ever actually see a day where Israel leaves their lands is if they detonate a few nukes on the Israelis. But, then the land all around there would be contaminated and inhabitable for 50 years at least. Also, Israel would respond with their own nuke attacks. There is no way in hell that any conventional war is going to see Israel leave that area. So, this idea that Hamas and whomever else is propogating about a destruction of Israel or Israel being knocked into the sea is nothing more than propaganda and myth that they are selling and, unfortunately, a lot of their own people are buying it.
There are several things at play here. 1. Hamas doesn't have much power to stop other groups from attacking. The Palestinian security forces have been largely dismantled and disarmed. Most of those that are left are under control of the Fatah branch of the govt. which is using those security forces to attack Hamas. The situation is like the U.S. taking away all of the Iraqi police forces weapons, and body armor, and then asking them to stop the attacks in Iraq. When the police don't stop the attacks, we hold them responsible, and march in and take away any other weapons they might have gathered. We also try and cut off any funds they have to do their job. Then when another attack happens we ask why they aren't stopping them. 2. The Palestinians haven't gained anything in regards to land. Israel has increased settlements in the west bank, but made publicity about vacating the Gaza strip. There are laws that discriminate against them, and they are oppressed. 3. Israel just committed a military strike killing 10 Palestinian civilians. If a govt. that voted to never recognize the U.S.' right to exist shelled the U.S. and killed 10 civilians, there are decent odds that we would retaliate. 4. Hamas and other palestinians groups foolishly see terrorism as way to accomplish their goals. They take the moral low ground, by this tactic, and dampen the sympathy that an oppressed people might normally expect from the world. As long as they murder innocent people I can never imagine supporting them, nor any real boost in monetary packages. Until they abandon terror as a tactic they don't deserve it. 5. Neither side is willing to take responsibility for anything. When attacked for doing something wrong both sides claim the other side is guilty of something also. 6. By calling off the cease fire, Hamas is not going to do themselves any good. They may want to retaliate, but in the end it will only cause more deaths on both sides. Israel needs to pull back to the '67 borders, and the Palestinians need to clean house and do their part to keep those '67 borders secure. Military responses to these problems have been going on for decades now, and they don't do any good. Palestinians groups that respond with terrorism never make it better for the Palestinian people. They only encourage more attacks from Israel, sew more distrust among the Israeli people, and hurt their chance of real funding increases. It is a horrible, inhumane tactic that punishes the innocent. It also just isn't successful.
It's no secret the Palestinians want, at a minimum, for Israel to withdraw to the '67 borders. But, we know the Palestinians are going about it the wrong way. Hamas wants Israel to withdraw to those borders before they will even consider talks. I'm pretty sure Israel will not withdraw to those '67 borders...especially without any peace talks occurring. They would claim that would enhance terror attacks and whatever...which it probably would. I've seen a documentary with at least one well known Israeli politician speaking candidly about how they will never withdraw to those borders and they admitted on camera that what they were doing to the Palestinians wasn't fair. It was like they were prepared to do anything to hold onto that land. It was some HBO documentary about the dispute. Sorry, I forgot the politician's name but he's one of the well-known ones. I was surprised to hear a candid conversation like that on camera. Israel is not wanting to give up enough for peace. Therein lies a significant part of the problem. But, the bottom line is there haven't been any serious peace discussions since Clinton was at the end of term but that all turned out to be a farce as well. Neither side was really negotiating in good faith...is the conclusion I came away with.
yeah it is a huge mess. It seems like neither side is willing to do what it would take for peace, and both sides go about it the wrong way. The Palestinians even use terrorism, which immediately knocks them off of the moral high ground they could hold. It is very frustrating. I used to follow all the stuff as in-depth as an peon like myself could, but I just couldn't bear to keep up with it as intensely.
Not to be too corny, or too much of a smartass, but more appropriate metaphors might be: "Sh*t hitting a toilet." "Air hitting a fan."
Israel and Palastine......just not ever going to have peace over there. The USA should cut and run...screw the Jewish lobby, we don't owe Israel anything. DD
Actually, all of the following pretty much apply to this sh*t situation: Idiom: beat the sh*t out of someone (kick the sh*t out of someone) To hit or attack them severely. ------------------------------ Idiom: get one's sh*t together To get oneself and one's matters organized. ------------------------------------------ Idiom: No **** (S) slang, often ironic No fooling; You amaze me. ------------------------- Idiom: scared ****less To be extremely scared or upset. Example: I was scared sh*tless of him ------------------------------------ Idiom: sh*t a brick (sh*t bricks) To be very anxious or scared. ---------------------------- Idiom: sh*t oneself slang To be extremely frightened or scared. ------------------------------------ Idiom: when the sh*t hits the fan slang When the real trouble or conflict begins. -------------------------------------- Idiom: up sh*t creek In an extremely difficult or troublesome situation.
As long as Palestinian lands are occupied, they have a legitimate case to resist that occupation, although that might not be to some people's liking. What people question and object to are the methods sometimes used by the Palestinian militants to strike back at the Israelis (specifically speaking, the targeting of Israeli civilians), not the fact that they have every right to fight back against their oppressors. Ending the truce is regrettable, I hope Abbas and regional leaders can talk Hamas leaders to go back to a self-imposed truce they have been adhering to for the most part (almost two years of truce, which no one thought would be possible, yet it brought no benefit whatsoever to the Palestinians or the Israelis in terms of negotiations).
A Look at the Powerful Jewish Lobby in America Seems like we need to re-take our country. "They took 'er jobs!"
surf its cute that you pretend to be unbiased in this thread but its just not true. the title of the thread says it all. instead of discussing that israel has killed 14 people mostly on a beach in gaza and wounded tons more. israel SHELLED a beach. no **** hamas reacted the way it did. israel wounded 40 people. on a beach. at a family picnic.
First of all, Fatah didn't 'reign in' anyone, they couldn't control what Hamas or the various other militant factions wanted to do, Fatah was merely the 'ruling' faction. Second of all, Palestinian government employees are not getting paid, they haven't been paid for more than a few months now, and in many cases Palestinian security guards/police are refusing to carry on with their jobs, meaning that there is virtually no law enforcement, because the aid money from the Europeans/Americans has dried up, and the Arabs are scared of offending the US if they provide the Palestinian government with aid money to pay their employees. In fact, Hamas had to deploy their own militants to petrol the streets and attempt to establish some sort of law and order there. Look, I agree that no one has a 'moral obligation' to fund the Palestinians or anyone else, but I think it's hilarious to b**** and moan about it when everything has been done up to this day to undermine the Hamas-led government and hope for its failure, while Fatah was given lots of cash and time to create a functioning government and they failed miserably due to massive corruption in their leadership ranks, and yet we seem to be continually propping up Fatah regardless of the results! Why is the Hamas-led government not given a fair shot and may be, just may be they will surprise everyone? Mandela was a terrorist, Sadat and Begin used to joke about how they were 'reformed terrorists'. Give them a God damn chance to govern and if they fail, let them fail under their own weight, otherwise they will ALWAYS use Americans/Israelis of undermining them, and they will get a pass from the Palestinian people for it. Long-term, we are NOT helping ourselves, that much I can guarantee...
