I am actually seeing what you're saying here today being reported in WSJ and other places. I hadn't read anything about it since last Thursday. I do see the "no right of return" language today, that's what I had not heard about. I appreciate your response, thanks.
In which you admit that you are not to be taken seriously. Even if this one question was in good faith, and not a tactic to side battle semantics, you are admitting that otherwise you would normally just be here to troll. You want to have a serious healthy discussion, prove you are serious for longer than one post... in which that post isn't such an obvious cover for Trump. You can start by telling us why, regardless of the semantics of Ethnic Cleansing, it would be a good thing for the United States under Trump to devote as much if not more resources than we devoted to the Iraq war to send troops into Gaza, and build whatever new nation or territory Trump is proposing we build. Stick the premise. Why is this something you support? If you don't support that, tell us why as well.
Trump says Palestinians won't have the right to return to Gaza under his plan: "I would own this" - CBS News "We'll build beautiful communities for the 1.9 million people," the president told Baier. "We'll build beautiful communities. Safe communities. Could be five, six. Could be two, but we'll build safe communities a little bit away from where they are, where all of this danger is. In the meantime, I would own this. Think of it as a real estate development for the future. It would be a beautiful piece of land—" Baier asked Mr. Trump, "Would the Palestinian have the right to return?" "No, they wouldn't, because they're going to have much better housing, much better. In other words, I'm talking about building a permanent place for them," Mr. Trump responded. "Because if they have to return now, it'll be years before you could ever — it's not habitable. It could be years before it could happen." Trump is doing his best to make this sound like a good deal for Palestinians and for the Arab countries he's hoping will accept them. If somehow he can get all of these people to voluntarily relocate -- and that seems to be what he's trying to sell -- then I would not call it an ethnic cleansing. But, I think the reality is that most of the Gaza inhabitants will not want to leave. Hence the fear that they will be forced out, one way or another. Creating nearly impossible conditions for them to stay is one of those ways.
You will see a argument form in the near future that states Hamas is holding the Gazan population hostage and in reality most Gazans want to leave. They don't and not because of Hamas. Ethnic groups of people who understand what displacement is understands whatever new place they go to they are more likely to be seen lower in the social hierarchy in their new place that adopted them. This is why groups of people see self determination as a life or death thing. When your ethnic group of people are displaced to a new country, your people are going to be in the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic hierarchy.
Are you just finding out what I've been saying for years. The biggest disingenuous troll on these forums is by far @Os Trigonum . Its insane how anyone takes him seriously like at all. He does nothing but post right wing conspiracies
Huh? It is by definition ethnic cleansing Ethnic cleansing is the systematic forced removal of ethnic, racial, or religious groups from a given area, with the intent of making the society ethnically homogeneous. Along with direct removal such as deportation or population transfer, it also includes indirect methods aimed at forced migration by coercing the victim group to flee and preventing its return, such as murder, rape, and property destruction. Now the President of the United States is saying that the Palestinians should not go back to Gaza .... that is de facto ethnic cleansing.
A lot of it depends on where the Palestinians are going to be forced to relocate to and also the neighboring countries of where they move to. The Middle East is largely broken into Iran and Saudi Arabia - so the Saudi coalition will likely be happy with the Palestinians being relocated, as long as it is to the right area. Why? It hurts power brokers and supporters of Iran in the long term. It also is likely something that many Iraqi's may benefit from as it will remove a radical actor from close proximity to them and possibly hinder the further influence of Iran in Iraq. Egypt - well that is complicated, because it could cause rebellion in Egypt - or it could long term stabilize the region.... but Egypt also doesn't really want to see Israel grow in size and power, which is what happens when they turn Gaza into labensraum.
Where else is the United States volunteering to conduct ethnic cleansing? Because I can guarantee outrage once I find out about it! "No exceptions"? What a farcically untrue statement. Iraq invaded Kuwait. We responded and retook Kuwait but Iraq lost no territory, even if you include the Second Persian Gulf War. Falklands War is another such example. I'd also say Japan in WWII lost its recently-acquired colonies but didn't lose any territory in Japan proper.
The "selective outrage" critique seems to ignore the outsized role the US has in funding these violent conflicts. Why shouldn't Americans be especially interested in it, rather than some conflict that largely doesn't involve them?
I'd like to see a citation for that because I'm googling your assertion and not finding any substantiation. Unless the portion you're referring to is Kuwait.
Nope - he is President of the USA and he said it, in front of the press and the leader of Israel. It "isn't going to happen soon, or ever" ---- then don't say it if you are President of the USA, as it makes you look weak. Yeah - some called it "ethnic cleansing", because that is exactly what the definition of ethnic cleansing is. Trump was "hyperbolic"? Really stretching it here, so when Trump says something stupid or not well though out, it is hyperbolic? Got it. "But note that Mr. Trump expressed admirable sympathy for the Palestinians and their plight." Really? So much sympathy that he is going to force them to leave their home, and the area that they have fought for? This is some real propaganda level BS. "Others criticized Mr. Trump for U.S. imperialism, contrary to his campaign theme of deriding foreign interventions." - Right, as he bombs Yemen, and then says that the USA is going take control of the Gaza strip.... and negotiates with the Ukrainians over mineral rights... and discusses making Canada the 51st state... etc. At the end of the day, Donald Trump is not some pundit discussing the removal of Palestinians with the use of the US military and the US taking control of Gaza.... he is the President of the USA, and he made the statements to the Press, and at least some of them while in front of the leader of Israel. It is what it is --- but this white washing needs to stop.
It's also a bad faith talking points to compare Gazans to Nazi Germany. The people in Nazi Germany weren't refugees who have been occupied by another state that is suppressing their basic civil rights and right to self determination for more than half a century Germany became Nazi Germany for entirely different reasons Palestinians have Hamas as their government. Hamas is the end state result of a group of people trying every avenue to get self determination and failing while losing immense amount of life in the process and becoming radicalized through these traumatic experiences as a standard aspect of their lives.
As Egypt and Jordan what happened the last time a lot of Palestinians were moved into their respective countries.... both countries almost saw their governments fall. Also - keeping Palestinians in the same general region is a recipe for disaster as the terrorist networks will just move in and entrench in the neighboring areas. If the goal is just to stabilize the region and decrease terrorism - the Palestinians would have to have their Trail of Tears far away, to an area more isolated. Also - many of the people living in Egypt would be very upset at their government if the Palestinians were forced from the land. Indeed - the only real "winner" would be Israel and possibly Jordan and Saudi Arabia.
Cmon nook. This is a ridiculous take. No gulf state wants Gaza to be occupied by Americans. Gulf states are run by authoritarian dictators and the last thing they want is another Arab uprising where their power is at jeopardy. I know this cuz I've lived in middle east and it would cause massive riots in the region is Americans occupied gaza @Os Trigonum is a disingenuous loser who does nothing but white wash Trump.
