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Hamas attacks Israel: Yom Kippur War, 50 years on

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Oct 7, 2023.

  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Thank you (I mean it) for being the first person to actually at least give an answer to the question what Israel should have done.

    But what you are saying only addresses the immediate hostage situation. It doesn't eliminate the threat from Hamas, at all.

    I don't think you are denying that Hamas' entire raison d'être is killing Jews. They stated that they want do repeat October 7 again and again and again, and they fired tons of rockets at Israel, every day.

    What you are suggesting does not address that.

    You cannot expect anyone to just lay down and let that keep happening, after an event like October 7th. Israel had built the Iron Dome, people (especially actually the ones in that Kibbutz) were trying to normalize relationships with the Gazans, heck, some of the people murdered were volunteers who drove Gazans to Israeli hospitals.

    All Hamas ever did was to prepare for murdering more Jews.

    They have to be taken out, completely.
     
  2. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    No I don't think Hamas' sole existence is killing Jews at least according their charter.


    Are their individual members of Hamas who might think that like there are individual members of the Israeli government who think all Palestinians should be killed or expelled? Absolutely.
     
  3. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    So let me get this straight a conservative/libertarian Jewish guy Dave Smith recommends the podcast as being fair and informative. Darryl does a podcast with an ex Navy Seal, conservative generally very pro Isreal Jocko Willink.

    with reviews like this

    Anyone interested in this topic should definitely check out Darryl Cooper's "MartyrMade" podcast, which had a Dan-Carlin-style series of episodes about early modern Zionism and the origins of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict: http://www.martyrmade.com/fear-loathing-in-the-new-jerusalem... It does a great job of being even-handed and emotionally connecting the listener with the motivations of the people in history.

    The history of the Jews (and the Jewish diaspora in particular) is fascinating. Between the typical opposing endpoints of assimilation/integration and separation there is this curious in-between state that seems both chaotic and stable over time -- the state of being "in a place" but not always being "of that place." The aforementioned podcast describes well the urge to assimilate or to remain distinct, positions held by both those in the Jewish community and those outside of it. The modern revival of the Hebrew language into a living tongue, both as a method of crystallizing identity and distinctiveness, is one example. Also interesting to consider how even small differences in "rules" between societies (like allowing usury or not, and to whom) leads to complex social consequences over time -- sort of a cellular automata analogy. Historical patterns of Jewish expulsion from various societies also make for interesting microcosms to understand tribe-based interactions: when the Jewish people were invited or allowed into a region, who was behind that change in policy and why? When pogroms or expulsions happened afterward, what were the causes and which segments of the population were the catalyst and why? It's an endlessly dynamic system that resists our efforts to create a simple static narrative -- and I suppose if anything it helps reveal that all of history is like that.

    2. Love this series! Thank you for the wonderful story telling of the Jew/Palestine feud. You have enlightened my understanding and this goes back way longer than probably any of us know of, so interesting. I love how you give it from an unbiased position. Great job!

    3. I just finished the Fear and Loathing in the New Jerusalem series and yes it’s long but well worth the time spent. If you want to know the in depth history between the Palestinians and Israelis, listen to this podcast. If you’re American or Westerner like I am, you will never be told the truth behind the conflict. The research that Darryl put in to this is incredible and all I can say is thank you for presenting both sides in such an unbiased manner. Fantastic series and I can’t wait to listen to more of your work!

    I could go on and on. I am sure there are a few non factual points witihin 17 hours but it does a great job regardless of you doing an internet search of whatever you could find that is negative. Again you're incapable of learning anything. Stick to your tweets I guess kiddo and as the first review stated, "simple static narrative."
     
    fchowd0311 likes this.
  4. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    Uh.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...s-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

    https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/Ab...amas charter is the,18 years of its existence.

    Please read it.
     
  5. peleincubus

    peleincubus Member

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    Also, you jump to a LOT of conclusions about my ideas calling me a jew hater or whatever. I would love for you to find a single quote on here where I have ever said something like that. Tweet away though big boy... Change the world!!!
     
    trustme and fchowd0311 like this.
  6. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    Woke people hate and give zero *** to responsible Black men simply trying to work or pick up his daughter
     
    tinman likes this.
  7. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @fchowd0311

    I've met Abdul before and he's a true patriot
     
    AroundTheWorld likes this.
  8. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Contributing Member

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    Per current charter guidelines it nevertheless carried out a terrorist attack on Israel on 7 October 2023 that killed around 1,200 people in Israel.[30] Thus, in reality, little had changed since Hamas' antisemitic, anti-human and jihadist beginnings: "In 2017, Hamas dressed up their terrorist objectives in more ambiguous, less violent terms. But in 2023, they made clear what they really stood for—in President Biden's words, 'the destruction of the State of Israel and the murder of Jewish people.'"

    @AroundTheWorld
    @tinman
     
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  9. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Good move SF. We should have a similar resolution in Houston. Well assuming you want peace in I/P and not just Apartheid with painful violence back and forth (Oct 7 and the current slaughter of 10,000's of civilians, we in the US will have to stop supporting the Israelis who are not in favor of a One or Two State Solution and dependent on us for support.
    And "No" it is not just Netanyahu.
     
  10. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    @Nook Blinken met with bibi yesterday and today they release a walk back from occupying gaza at all. Diplomacy happens behind closed doors which is something lefties don't understand @fchowd0311 @glynch.

    Useless braindead ceasefire votes accomplish nothing. Diplomacy is a grind
     
    #6091 astros123, Jan 10, 2024
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2024
    Nook and AroundTheWorld like this.
  11. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Israel is not dependent on us in any way. We've given them zero dollars in aid since the war started. They've purchased weapons with their money. Israel is a filthy rich country without any us aid. We only give them 3 billion a year which is less than 15% of their defense budget.

    Lefties have this deranged view that Israel only survives with us. They can buy weapons from china/Russia just as easily
     
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  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Boycotting would imply not even selling weapons to Israel.
     
  13. astros123

    astros123 Member

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    Amd then they buy weapons from China and then we have no leverage on stopping them from annexing Gaza? Do you not understand how diplomacy works. The only reason why biden can force bibi to say publicly he won't annex Gaza is cuz we sell them weapons. Diplomacy is messy.

    If israel buys from China they'll annex all of west bank/Gaza and tell the west to go fk themselves. Israel is a rich country with the richest citizens in the world. They'll have settlements popping up in Gaza in a few weeks if they buy from china.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    You want Hamas to win?
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    What will Hamas win?


    I'm curious to see you draw out a hypothetical of what Hamas is capable of against a Israeli border that is actually manned and doesn't have massive holes?
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    The forest for the trees, guy. Cut off of $3 billion in military aid and refusal to sell them our weapons is just the first step.

    After losing support and money from the US Israel can survive, but not well against the whole world when they are found to be genocidal at the UN and the ICC. They will be economically boycotted by the US, the democratic West as well as the 90% plus of the world that consistently does not support them at the UN.

    Israel really cannot count on their new friends the dictators and emirs of the surrounding Arab states who have to still somewhat take the views of roughly 95% of their population.. Without change Israel's option will be to be increasingly a pariah nation like N. Korea with their nuclear bombs.

    Boycott Divestment and Sanctions will actually help Israel to become a modern democratic state. The international pressure as in SouthAfrica will aid after the liberals and the left in Israel in their struggle against their right and the religious fanatics in Israel and the US who support Apartheid and oppression due to their reading of the bible. Eventually Israel will do better than ever, and the Jews will be safer like they are in the US for instance.

    Change in Israel might displease you probably as you seem to identify as a rightie.
     
  17. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    You want Hamas to stay in power?
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    No. What Israel is doing is creating more support for Hamas.
     
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  19. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Insufferable 98er
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    That's like saying "what the allies were doing created more support for the Nazis".

    Total BS.

    You have to defeat evil, not try to appease it.
     
    blue_eyed_devil and ROXRAN like this.

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